Meath_Villan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 It's the ants I feel for ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, ender4 said: Whaaaaat????? Is that true? All milk comes from pregnant cows? How am I just learning that today! Are they permanently pregnant or do they rotate in different cows when they are pregnant? my limited understanding is that as long as they can be pregnant, they are but obviously they continue to produce milk for a period of time after giving birth because it's meant for their calves, not us but they're probably impregnated again before their milk dries out oh and the boy calves are often just binned off straight away cause many dairy farms do not have the infrastructure to raise cattle for both dairy and meat. the girl calves are raised to be more dairy cows and the cycle continues yeah the dairy industry sucks...but i love cheese so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Vegetarians are the forgotten people at the moment. I may have said it previously but that McPlant burger needs cheese and Big Mac sauce! Not that I am a veggie (yet) but I eat very little meat at home anymore. Dairy though, I'd really struggle with, it's not just milk, butter and cheese it's checking every single sauce you cook with or add to anything. I've been a vegetarian my entire life but I have to disagree with this. All the vegan food on offer everywhere atm is incredible. It used to be that whenever I went out to eat all I could get would be a shit veggie lasagne, but now there's so many options, including the McPlant burger which I think is delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 3 hours ago, tomav84 said: just society mate. Quite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: In fairness, it's based on some reasonably logical principles from our days as hunter gatherers - Is it easy to catch? Does it have a lot of meat on it? Can it do other stuff instead? - that sort of thing. If Cows could sprint like a bugger and had sharp teeth we'd have let them be. Of course, we're not hunter gatherers anymore, no matter how much Asda feels like a bit of a scrum. While we're on that, I'd also say that it's also not a coincidence that hot countries, where keeping meat at safe temperatures is more difficult, tend to have religions that say don't eat pork. I eat meat, and I appreciate that I live with a cognitive dissonance that for the most part allows me to ignore the morality of that, I can't justify it, it's one of a number of bad things that I do. But we're not hunter gatherers. If we were then it would be totally different. Nobody hunts their food. We go to the shop and pick it off the shelves. I find it strange that people object to the slaughter and suffering of animals they like, but animals they don't like are fair game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: I've been a vegetarian my entire life but I have to disagree with this. All the vegan food on offer everywhere atm is incredible. It used to be that whenever I went out to eat all I could get would be a shit veggie lasagne, but now there's so many options, including the McPlant burger which I think is delicious. I enjoyed the McPlant burger, but it does need more to it. Just give us the whole menu, but with the option to have a Plant Pattie instead of a normal pattie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But we're not hunter gatherers. If we were then it would be totally different. Nobody hunts their food. We go to the shop and pick it off the shelves. 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Of course, we're not hunter gatherers anymore, no matter how much Asda feels like a bit of a scrum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: I've been a vegetarian my entire life but I have to disagree with this. All the vegan food on offer everywhere atm is incredible. It used to be that whenever I went out to eat all I could get would be a shit veggie lasagne, but now there's so many options, including the McPlant burger which I think is delicious. But there should also be the option for people that previously enjoyed meaty McDonald's to be able to replicate what they had. The meat isn't the problem as the beyond stuff is great, but it would be good if they also used it to make exact Big Mac and Quarter Pounder replicas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I enjoyed the McPlant burger, but it does need more to it. Just give us the whole menu, but with the option to have a Plant Pattie instead of a normal pattie That hadn't occurred to me and yet it seems obvious. Why wouldn't they do this? Surely it would be pretty straightforward, give them a new income stream and give them the PR positioning of having everything on the menu available in a plant based form? All win for the big shoed clown and his real estate empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I find it strange that people object to the slaughter and suffering of animals they like, but animals they don't like are fair game. I think the idea that the division is between animals that people "like" and "don't like" is a simplification that causes a lot of people to become defensive. I like cows. I eat beef. I don't eat beef because I don't like cows. I like dogs. I don't eat dog. I don't not eat dog because I like dogs. I know there's a logical fallacy in that, but we live in a culture that supports that fallacy - "liking" animals or not isn't part of that thought process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I used to be full on vegetarian, then a few years ago I started eating meat again. Kind of based on making sure the kids had a balanced diet. Kids are all grown up and the veggie diet has been returning. We currently have something like chicken or beef mince twice a week… up until this week. Watched some trashy programme where they fished for and caught some octopus and then cooked it. Just got me thinking how beautiful and intelligent something like an octopus is and how we are such a drain on the natural world. Veggie lasagne this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I enjoyed the McPlant burger, but it does need more to it. Just give us the whole menu, but with the option to have a Plant Pattie instead of a normal pattie i also think they should change things that no one would notice the difference of to vegan alternative. big mac sauce i guarantee is a piece of piss to make vegan. and vegan mayo tastes identical to the normal stuff. they wouldn't even need to tell anyone they've done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seal Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 hours ago, tomav84 said: see, vegans i get. it's not for me, but i get it. vegetarianism, i really find bizarre. so they don't eat meat, but they have no problem with other animal products, dairy, etc Everyone draws there line somewhere. I am a vegan less honey, so technically a vegetarian. Some people draw the line at shell fish, its a individual level of moral comfort. Personally I am OK with honey as I am confident enough for my own satisfaction, that the honey taken is excess honey not needed by bees - purely on the basis that if the bee's don't have enough a commercial bee hive is not possible. Vegetarians can be vegetarian for health reasons or for cost reasons (or other reasons), the two things I noticed when I turned vegetarian initially was that I felt healthier and I saved money. I also noted that I became less competitive when playing football but this could also be for a number of other reasons like my knees turning to mush. Also - to be vegan takes quite a lot of time and research that requires a genuine commitment that some vegetarians, that would like to be vegan just don't have the energy to put in. The amount of times you something becomes not vegan on a technicality is insane. If you are in a relationship it is helpful to have your partner in the same boat, otherwise it becomes double hard. Many vegetarians would love to be vegan, but it is genuinely quite hard to achieve. It has probably been mentioned on here, but there is a youtube doc called 'Earthlings' that is horrible watch, but I think does the best job of explaining the moral issues in a clear way albeit with an aura of moral superiority. However it is not for the faint hearted. One could put together a wonderful argument that it should be shown to all children as school, but one could put together a wonderful argument that no-one with eyes should ever have to watch that. Sometimes, also. morality is not as clear cut as right or wrong. I don't consider the me in my twenties that ate meat to be immoral. It was only when I considered eating meat to be immoral that it became that way (for me). Something only becomes an issue of morality when you yourself become aware that it is. With meat eaters criticising Zouma for hitting a cat whilst eating a bacon sarnie, their awareness is in a place where kicking a car is a moral issue, whereas eating a bacon sarnie is just a really shit pudding. They are existing within their own moral code, and until they ever reach the place that they stand under that eating meat is immoral, then I don't think they are being immoral. On the other hand when I have messed up with a drunken kebab or a fish and chips cuz i was near the sea, I do consider that I have acted immorally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: I think the idea that the division is between animals that people "like" and "don't like" is a simplification that causes a lot of people to become defensive. I like cows. I eat beef. I don't eat beef because I don't like cows. I like dogs. I don't eat dog. I don't not eat dog because I like dogs. I know there's a logical fallacy in that, but we live in a culture that supports that fallacy - "liking" animals or not isn't part of that thought process. I agree but it wasn't me making that distinction. Two people in this thread have said they eat animals they don't like, and don't eat animals they do like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: That hadn't occurred to me and yet it seems obvious. Why wouldn't they do this? The main reason is probably that they're looking at plant based and not veggie. So you can't put vegan patties in a big mac and call it plant powered. You'd need vegan sauce and vegan cheese etc. PLus there's cross contamination issues with fryers. I'm guessing they now have one grill in a store that's especially for the plant patties. If they were selling more, they'd need more non-meat grills. It could also be them drip feeding it through so that they get more press and demand out of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: i also think they should change things that no one would notice the difference of to vegan alternative. big mac sauce i guarantee is a piece of piss to make vegan. and vegan mayo tastes identical to the normal stuff. they wouldn't even need to tell anyone they've done it I agree but the thing with this is people are idiots and there would be uproar about it once people did notice. See the Percy Pig nonsense as evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, Seal said: Many vegetarians would love to be vegan, but it is genuinely quite hard to achieve. This is me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I agree but the thing with this is people are idiots and there would be uproar about it once people did notice. See the Percy Pig nonsense as evidence Do you remember the uproar from meat eaters when Gregg's released a vegan sausage roll that they didn't even need to eat? That was hilarious and tragic at the same time/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, PieFacE said: Do you remember the uproar from meat eaters when Gregg's released a vegan sausage roll that they didn't even need to eat? That was hilarious and tragic at the same time/ Exactly It's like being angry that they released a cheese and onion pasty because you don't like onions 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: We don't disagree on that Yeah see this is very strange to me. Some animals we're ok to kill and eat, but some we're not. Just based on your opinion of them. I can't get my head around that This is what made me raise my eyebrow about the whole Zouma scenario. There seems to be a few sacred animals that humans just decided we like better for whatever reason. If he kicked a chicken, then snapped its neck and ate it I suspect there wouldn't such an uproar. Not that there shouldn't have been mind, but it's perplexing nonetheless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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