Vegetarianism/Veganism

[peterms]

 

[blandy]

10 hours ago, peterms said:

 

Mmmm. Unfortunately though, billionaires, chemical/ultra processed food companies, skinny model, evangelical zealots, academics on the make, have all conspired to homogenise the diets of the global population, to our own detriment and that of the planet to chomp away on reconstituted,  mechanically recovered, meat nuggets etc etc.

so maybe a drift towards something less toxic might not be quite so “resist” worthy?

[peterms]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

Mmmm. Unfortunately though, billionaires, chemical/ultra processed food companies, skinny model, evangelical zealots, academics on the make, have all conspired to homogenise the diets of the global population, to our own detriment and that of the planet to chomp away on reconstituted,  mechanically recovered, meat nuggets etc etc.

so maybe a drift towards something less toxic might not be quite so “resist” worthy?

Yes.  The general idea that we need to move towards a sustainable food system is very obviously right.

There are two big concerns about the proposals that I've come across (leaving aside things like the sponsors being firms that have caused the problem in the first place, like Bayer/Monsanto, Pepsi, Unilever, Kellog; and that their track record suggests they won't have our best interests at heart).

One is that the proposed diet is nutritionally deficient.

Quote

...The EAT diet is based on an adult male. An adult female would likely consume four fifths of the above diet and thus four fifths of the above vitamins and minerals. Notwithstanding this, the above diet is deficient in the following nutrients:

Vitamin B12 – the US RDA is 2.4mcg, the EAT diet is slightly deficient in providing 2.27mcg. I would not mention this nutrient but for the comment in Table 1 that animal items can be replaced with plant protein options and these will not provide any B12. (There is an amusing error on p16 of the 51 page report. It says “The only exception is vitamin B12 that is low in animal-based diets.” I think they mean plant-based diets!)

Retinol (the form in which the body needs vitamin A – we cannot rely on carotene to be converted). The EAT diet provides just 17% of retinol recommended.

Vitamin D – the EAT diet provides just 5% of vitamin D recommendation and some of that provided will have come from plants and not be D3, which is the body’s preferred form.

Vitamin K – the USDA is not ideal when it comes to vitamin K. It does not distinguish between K1 (primarily found in leafy green vegetables) and K2 (primarily found in fermented foods and some foods of animal origin). 72% of the vitamin K in the EAT diet came from the broccoli (K1). As is the case with all nutrients, the animal form (K2) is better absorbed by the body.

Sodium – the EAT diet provides just 22% of the sodium recommendation. Sodium is so often demonised that people forget that it is a vital nutrient.

Potassium – the EAT diet provides just 67% of potassium recommended.

Calcium – more seriously, the EAT diet provides just 55% of calcium recommended.

Iron – the EAT diet provides 88% of iron recommended. Again, the body better absorbs heme iron, which comes from meat, poultry, seafood and fish. The US recommendations state: “The RDAs for vegetarians are 1.8 times higher than for people who eat meat. This is because heme iron from meat is more bioavailable than nonheme iron from plant-based foods, and meat, poultry, and seafood increase the absorption of nonheme iron” (Ref 2).

I have analysed separately the 7g beef, 7g pork, 29g chicken and 28g of fish, to find the maximum amount of heme iron (some of the iron in these foods is non-heme) and it amounts to 1.1mg – just 6% of the iron intake recommended. Given that the rest of the iron is non-heme, the deficiency is far greater than the number 88% suggests, as the requirement is 1.8 times higher.

Omega-3 – essential fatty acids. Unfortunately, the tool doesn’t aggregate to the fatty acid level, but this diet is highly likely deficient in omega-3 and highly likely (given the 350 calories of nutritionally poor, highly unsaturated, vegetable oils) has an unhealthy omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Fish is the best source of omega-3 and the 28g of fish in the EAT diet provides 284mg of omega-3 fatty acids vs. an RDA of 1.6g for adult males.

A second is that a plant-based diet is also capable of being environmentally destructive, because It’s not WHAT you eat, it’s HOW it’s produced that matters

Quote

...Grains and pulses tend to be grown in mass monocultures on a continuous system of cropping, which means in practice thousands of acres of the same crop, grown in the same place, year after year, with liberal usage of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and fertiliser, and quite often plenty of ploughing (the deep turning over of the soil). This leads to a collapse of the local ecosystem, impoverishment of the soil and eutrophication of water courses, amongst other harmful effects. It also requires vast quantities of fossil fuel. It’s environmentally unsustainable, and more and more arable (grains, veg, legumes…) farmers are realising this, and pursuing change.

The deep soil that once existed to support this type of extractive farming now barely exists. This is how the vast majority of the world’s soy is grown.

Paleo — A typical paleo diet includes lots of meat and excludes grains and legumes. However, most people (including paleos) that eat meat source it from the supermarket, and the vast majority of the meat on sale comes from animals finished in feedlots. Taking beef as an example, this means that at about 9–12 months of age, once weaned, the yearling calves are sent to a feedlot to ‘finish’ for a period of 4–6 months on a diet that is high in grains and legumes. That’s the paradox. You might not be eating the grains and legumes directly, but you are still eating them, indirectly. And the feedlot itself has its own environmental footprint.

Those grains and legumes are usually grown in the same destructive manner as the grains and legumes that vegans eat. The argument that vegans use here is that it’s more efficient (in terms of land and energy) to feed those grains and legumes directly to humans. And that’s absolutely correct.

Neither system of farming is desirable, and neither diet is good for the environment, if the food is produced in this manner. It’s a lose-lose scenario...

 

[PieFacE]

This is hilarious. So many people in the comments are so **** stupid .

Personally, I think it's quite a good advert. It's in-line with thoughts i've held for a long time.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by PieFacE

[Stevo985]

47 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

This is hilarious. So many people in the comments are so **** stupid .

Personally, I think it's quite a good advert. It's in-line with thoughts i've held for a long time.

 

"But there are countries that do eat dogs"

 

Great observation. What's your point  

[bickster]

Peta, the Vegan equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church

[Stevo985]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

Peta, the Vegan equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church

That's a ludicrous comparison to be honest.

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's a ludicrous comparison to be honest.

That's me convinced

[snowychap]

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by snowychap

[Xann]

There's a vegan food hall on Brick Lane atm. Me n She went at the weekend.

I had a Philly 'steak' and cheese sub. It was alright as it goes.

The cheese, modelled on that wrong tinned liquid cheese the Yanks enjoy, was a surprisingly good facsimile. Happier eating the vegan one than the real thing

The 'steak' had all the right seasoning and was very tasty, but had I been given it blind I'd have said it was mushroom based.

She had a plate of various African dishes. It was good too.

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, PieFacE said:

This is hilarious. So many people in the comments are so **** stupid .

Personally, I think it's quite a good advert. It's in-line with thoughts i've held for a long time.

 

that's made me hungry

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, Xann said:

There's a vegan food hall on Brick Lane atm. Me n She went at the weekend.

I had a Philly 'steak' and cheese sub. It was alright as it goes.

The cheese, modelled on that wrong tinned liquid cheese the Yanks enjoy, was a surprisingly good facsimile. Happier eating the vegan one than the real thing

The 'steak' had all the right seasoning and was very tasty, but had I been given it blind I'd have said it was mushroom based.

She had a plate of various African dishes. It was good too.

I've seen a Philly Cheese Steak sub recipe online and it did indeed use Mushrooms as the "steak". It wasn't trying to taste like steak to be fair, just using mushrooms instead. Looked lovely but haven't tried it myself.

Vegan cheese seems to be a right lottery. I got some slices to put on burgers last week from M & S and it was lovely. It didn't exactly taste like cheddar, but in terms of hamburger cheese it was nice.

But I tried a vegan pizza on the weekend and the "cheese" on that wasn't very nice at all.

 

Digbeth Dining Club have started a permanent "Meatless" day on Thursdays. Should be a decent source of veggie and vegan street food

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I've seen a Philly Cheese Steak sub recipe online and it did indeed use Mushrooms as the "steak". It wasn't trying to taste like steak to be fair, just using mushrooms instead. Looked lovely but haven't tried it myself.

Vegan cheese seems to be a right lottery. I got some slices to put on burgers last week from M & S and it was lovely. It didn't exactly taste like cheddar, but in terms of hamburger cheese it was nice.

But I tried a vegan pizza on the weekend and the "cheese" on that wasn't very nice at all.

2

I had a vegan macaroni cheese thing from M&S the other day, threw it in the bin after three mouthfuls. absolutely rank

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

I had a vegan macaroni cheese thing from M&S the other day, threw it in the bin after three mouthfuls. absolutely rank

I've had that, assuming it was the one in a little pot.

Agreed it's not great. I wouldn't call it rank, but it's not great. Everything else in their Plant Kitchen range I've tasted so far is really good though.

Like I said, cheese seems to be a lottery.

These ones, for example, are delicious

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Stevo985

[bickster]

22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I've had that, assuming it was the one in a little pot.

Agreed it's not great. I wouldn't call it rank, but it's not great. Everything else in their Plant Kitchen range I've tasted so far is really good though.

Like I said, cheese seems to be a lottery.

1

It was, the word I used at the time while testing its projectile properties in the direction of the bin just sounded like rank.

I agree on the pots most are nice, in fact I have a mixed bean chipotle chilli with wild rice sat on my desk right now begging me to eat it. It'll have to wait until tomorrow now though

There is another rank one though. The cider braised bean whatever it is. F***ing disgusting! That got launched binwards too

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

It was, the word I used at the time while testing its projectile properties in the direction of the bin just sounded like rank.

I agree on the pots most are nice, in fact I have a mixed bean chipotle chilli with wild rice sat on my desk right now begging me to eat it. It'll have to wait until tomorrow now though

There is another rank one though. The cider braised bean whatever it is. F***ing disgusting! That got launched binwards too

Haven't tried that one yet either. The Soulful range I posted above have better and cheaper pots anyway that are basically the same kind of thing. Can get them from Aldi or Ocado.

They get a bit old when you're having one every day though so I might try another couple of the M and S ones. To be honest I'm now even more tempted to try the cider braised bin one  

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Haven't tried that one yet either. The Soulful range I posted above have better and cheaper pots anyway that are basically the same kind of thing. Can get them from Aldi or Ocado.

They get a bit old when you're having one every day though so I might try another couple of the M and S ones. To be honest I'm now even more tempted to try the cider braised bin one  

imagine butter beans braised in malt vinegar. If that floats your cabbage lined boat, go ahead!

[lapal_fan]

Why no one answer my question about vegan pet chicken eggs?

You eat or no? 

It's your pet, it's producing.. you waste em? Or you eat em?

(read in a pigeon english Taiwanese person voice, fanks very much) 

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Why no one answer my question about vegan pet chicken eggs?

You eat or no? 

It's your pet, it's producing.. you waste em? Or you eat em?

(read in a pigeon english Taiwanese person voice, fanks very much) 

I know a vegan, friend of a friend, who has chickens and eats the eggs.

I guess it can be seen as hypocritical, but I can understand her reasoning. Vegans mostly don't want to eat eggs because of the suffering the animals go through to produce them in such vast quantities.
But if they're the eggs that a hen who's having a lovely life is just naturally producing then there's no suffering.

I guess you could say the same for meat. If all cows had long natural lives, died of natural causes and were then cut up and used as food then a lot more people would be fine with that. But it would mean there were very few eggs and very little meat.

[bickster]

The Westboro Vegan Society would say the chicken is still enslaved