Israel, Palestine and Iran

[ender4]

1 hour ago, omariqy said:

Think these last two days has probably been the worst in terms of casualties. No let up it seems. I wonder how long the leaders of the world will wrestle with the moral quandary of what's a proportionate response before coming to a conclusion. Another 20,000 deaths should do it I reckon 

Most of the leaders of the world won’t stick their nose in for a faraway region that doesn’t affect them. The only countries that like sticking their nose into every conflict round the world is the USA and the UK and neither have good judgement. 

This conflict is no different to 99% of other conflicts going on around the world except it has much lower deaths and a lot more media attention. World governments generally don’t care about deaths elsewhere.

[Mr_Dogg]

22 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Most of the leaders of the world won’t stick their nose in for a faraway region that doesn’t affect them. The only countries that like sticking their nose into every conflict round the world is the USA and the UK and neither have good judgement. 

This conflict is no different to 99% of other conflicts going on around the world except it has much lower deaths and a lot more media attention. World governments generally don’t care about deaths elsewhere.

But this isn't a war. It's an eradication. 

[magnkarl]

3 hours ago, omariqy said:

Think these last two days has probably been the worst in terms of casualties. No let up it seems. I wonder how long the leaders of the world will wrestle with the moral quandary of what's a proportionate response before coming to a conclusion. Another 20,000 deaths should do it I reckon 

Do you expect them to? They’re struggling with helping Ukraine who allegedly lost 20.000 people in Mariupol alone, 20.000 is getting close to 1% of the civilian casualties in Yemen since Iran started using the Houthis to get at SA.

Hamas have given everyone who usually don’t have a spine a very good excuse to let Israel kill civilians, but even if they didn’t have it the community of the world show very little ability to stop the killing of civilians even when the perceived aggressor didn’t have a reason to kill and invade (Russia in Ukraine in example).

Edited December 5, 2023 by magnkarl

[omariqy]

29 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Do you expect them to? They’re struggling with helping Ukraine who allegedly lost 20.000 people in Mariupol alone, 20.000 is getting close to 1% of the civilian casualties in Yemen since Iran started using the Houthis to get at SA.

Hamas have given everyone who usually don’t have a spine a very good excuse to let Israel kill civilians, but even if they didn’t have it the community of the world show very little ability to stop the killing of civilians even when the perceived aggressor didn’t have a reason to kill and invade (Russia in Ukraine in example).

Where have you got those Yemen figures from? Unless you mean something else?

https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/yemen/

Quote

More than 19,200 civilians, including over 2,300 children, have been killed or maimed as a result of coalition airstrikes alone. The conflict has displaced at least 4 million people and created the world’s largest humanitarian crisis, with more than 23.4 million in need of humanitarian assistance and 19 million facing food insecurity.

 

 

Those Ukraine figures are from a lot longer time period and as a proportion of population it's nowhere near. Likewise we are not supporting Russia like Israel. 

BTW @Vive_La_Villa is waiting an answer to his question that you may have missed.

Edited December 5, 2023 by omariqy

[bickster]

Those Yemeni death figures are way off. The UN estimate for the Yemeni death toll is around 150,000 from the war itself and a further 227,000 from famine brought about by the war. So 377,000 in total

[bickster]

19 minutes ago, omariqy said:

 Likewise we are not supporting Russia like Israel. 

You realise Hamas -> Iran & Syria -> Russia is the same “side” right?

[omariqy]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

You realise Hamas -> Iran -> Russia is the same “side” right?

Yup

[omariqy]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Those Yemeni death figures are way off. The UN estimate for the Yemeni death toll is around 150,000 from the war itself and a further 227,000 from famine brought about by the war. So 377,000 in total

Like Israel we support Saudi albeit more covertly. Some of us have been protesting against that as well as Israel!

Still doesn't get away from my main point which is how much longer before the mood shifts. 

 

[omariqy]

 

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

bloody hell, the smiles on their faces as they answer the questions wtf

[magnkarl]

9 hours ago, omariqy said:

Where have you got those Yemen figures from? Unless you mean something else?

https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/yemen/

 

Those Ukraine figures are from a lot longer time period and as a proportion of population it's nowhere near. Likewise we are not supporting Russia like Israel. 

BTW @Vive_La_Villa is waiting an answer to his question that you may have missed.

How long did the siege in Mariupol last? I think you're getting very focused on this conflict and ignoring the similarities to other conflicts, which is what academia and a lot of people who spend hours on social media in their echo chambers end up doing. Look at the video above this one.

My figures for Yemen were off by a hell of a lot, but we're still not even in the neighbourhood of that in Gaza.

As you can see above with academia a lot of people are getting very worked up on one side here, so much so that they're losing perspective and comparing what is going on in Gaza to events that are on paper a lot worse. 

My 'hot take' on the situation is that there's a bias to a lot of people when they see who's perpetrating this warfare, rather than the warfare in i.e. Syria, Yemen or Ukraine. I see it every day because people's rightful disgust of Israeli actions spill over into antisemitism against people who have the same ethnicity as the majority of the state of Israel. People's perspective (even for highly appraised doctors and professors) have gone out of the window.

Edited December 6, 2023 by magnkarl

[desensitized43]

20 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

bloody hell, the smiles on their faces as they answer the questions wtf

I really don’t understand what’s so hard about this at all. Calling for violence against any people is surely wrong whatever the context.

I do have to wonder why as a society we’re not challenging what clearly is fascistic language and chanting.

[magnkarl]

37 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

bloody hell, the smiles on their faces as they answer the questions wtf

As a black American, that answer from the head of Harvard must send shivers down your spine. Imagine if the roles were reversed and people were calling for the genocide of her race, and the heads of the three most prestigious universities in the U.S saying that the behaviour is only punishable if the context is right. Jesus.

During the BLM protests these three universities we're all about 'speech is violence', now that it doesn't fit their agenda it's all about context. Bunch of whoopers. 

Follow the money.

Quote

Ivy League among top recipients of $8.5 billion Arab funding

“In recent years, Qatar have been the largest investor in universities,” Dr. Bard’s report reads. “It, too, has an image problem as a funder and supporter of terrorist groups – Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood – and the home of the rabidly anti-Israel anti-American Al Jazeera television network.” 

Harvard University was revealed to be the 8th largest recipient of Arab funding, having received $187,133,626 over 102 gifts. The Ivy League university recently made headlines when multiple student leaders signed a statement blaming Israel for the early October terrorist attacks perpetrated by Hamas, and characterizing the massacre as inevitable Palestinian resistance.

Edited December 6, 2023 by magnkarl

[Chindie]

Universities are going to have discussions, debate, consideration etc of sometimes abhorrent or objectionable things. The universities have to balance allowing for that kind of thing whilst preventing it from becoming an illegal activity.

The congresswoman thinks she's got a gotcha moment, when in reality she's showing she doesn't understand (and in all reality probably doesn't care to, because she wants the gotcha for the cameras and the papers and knows the average person will just think like her) what she's talking about.

[magnkarl]

 

[omariqy]

Can we just clarify that intifada means to fight oppression by all different methods including boycotts and non violent protests. Including the great march of return. It’s resistance or shaking off oppression. Not sure why it’s been hijacked to mean what people think it means now. 

[desensitized43]

5 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Can we just clarify that intifada means to fight oppression by all different methods including boycotts and non violent protests. Including the great march of return. It’s resistance or shaking off oppression. Not sure why it’s been hijacked to mean what people think it means now. 

Words change their meaning all the time depending on the context of who is using them and why. Take the word “gay” for example…my 96 year old grandmother uses the word all the time to mean something entirely different than what a right wing skinhead would.

I don’t see why that applies any less to Arabic words than it would to say English and French.

[omariqy]

2 hours ago, desensitized43 said:

Words change their meaning all the time depending on the context of who is using them and why. Take the word “gay” for example…my 96 year old grandmother uses the word all the time to mean something entirely different than what a right wing skinhead would.

I don’t see why that applies any less to Arabic words than it would to say English and French.

Yeah true but most people are still using it in that context 

[omariqy]

 

[Rustibrooks]

Some idiot/idiots are threatening to blow up a school in East London