Israel, Palestine and Iran

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

I never said i want or it needs to be ethnic cleansing first of all.

I am actually shocked by some of the people's English language comprehension in here. This is insane either this is completely bad faith and you guys running with group thinking because you want to fit in or you actually like have some mental disabilities. People in here cant even differentiate between description explanation and advocation. jesus christ.

I'm not getting involved in the argument, but there's nothing wrong with people's comprehension regarding what you said about ethnic cleansing. It was very very clear.

If you meant something else then that's fine. I believe you. But it wasn't a problem with how people interpreted what you wrote, it was a problem with how you wrote it.

[Tumblerseven]

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

.You've suggested it as a solution to the conflict, the least undesireable one.

That's not quite the same as personally "wanting" it, but when you post that it is, in your opinion, the only viable option it's more than enough for people to post their own response as to why it's an unacceptable solution.

 

So thank you for confirming that this is a bad faith discussion and you people actually just bad faith.

You've suggested it as a solution to the conflict, the least undesireable one. no i actually didint.

My solution to the conflict is to free gaza which i told mutiple times. but you just ignore this because you bad faith.

 

 

Quote

I can’t, no. All 3 of those are totally unacceptable. The first 2 are utterly inhumane, fail to demonstrate any respect for human life or human rights and are appalling.

Quote

But realistically there is no other option you have to acknowledge that. You must agree that there are certain situations where humane and peaceful options doesn't exist.

We talking here about hypothetical scenario i gave you! are you like serious right now?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Tumblerseven

[villa89]

8 hours ago, magnkarl said:

What I really don't get is how these people think that the very small minority of Jews in Sweden, Norway and Poland are in support of Israel, if they were they'd all be in Israel long ago. It's a blemish on a nation when you've got open racism going on and no one stops it.

If you're Jewish and you support Israel you have to move there? First I've heard of that.

[Chindie]

Idiots ideas of smart people using the concept of 'bad faith' to deflect entirely valid criticism is one of the worst things to come out of the discourse of the last decade.

[KentVillan]

26 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

So thank you for confirming that this is a bad faith discussion and you people actually just bad faith.

You've suggested it as a solution to the conflict, the least undesireable one. no i actually didint.

My solution to the conflict is to free gaza which i told mutiple times. but you just ignore this because you bad faith.

 

 

We talking here about hypothetical scenario i gave you! are you like serious right now?

This post is miserably dumb and an incoherent load of utter shite

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

This post is miserably dumb and an incoherent load of utter shite

I have made a personal decision on future engagement and it comes after an epiphany where I realised I would never discuss politics or war with either Kevin or Perry.

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, Tumblerseven said:

I never said i want or it needs to be ethnic cleansing first of all.

I am actually shocked by some of the people's English language comprehension in here. This is insane either this is completely bad faith and you guys running with group thinking because you want to fit in or you actually like have some mental disabilities. People in here cant even differentiate between description explanation and advocation. jesus christ.

Don't worry about my comprehension, it was a joke quoting another person who made a joke. This is what happens on this forum. Someone writes something, other people run with it we all have a laugh because it's a football forum.

Or I might have a mental disability. 

Also, leave Jesus Christ out of it, this is an Israel/Palestine/Iran topic, please reference Allah or Jahwe. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I've been away since yesterday.

So where are we on ethnic cleansing today?

Have we come around to the idea of it being not so bad yet... Or still being a bunch of snowflakes?

[KentVillan]

This thread was quite good until the last couple of days, shame

[Mic09]

Just now, KentVillan said:

This thread was quite good until the last couple of days, shame

Still is if you don't treat it as a reliable source of info or well thought out opinion. 

It's pub talk on a forum. 

[NurembergVillan]

10 hours ago, delboy54 said:

There has to be some middle ground

If there is, you can expect Israeli settlers on it any day now

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, Tumblerseven said:

This is insane either this is completely bad faith and you guys running with group thinking because you want to fit in or you actually like have some mental disabilities.

Or, could it possibly be that every single one of your posts has been written in bad faith? Ignoring questions you don't want to answer, denying actual proveable factual arguments, throwing around accusations of hypocrisy in a projecting manner due to the undeniable hypocrisy of your posts.

Which is more likely - everyone else in the whole world has a problem or that you are here with an agenda and a complete lack of debating skills - in any language - and are continually posting in bad faith. I'd hazard a guess that most posters would go for the latter.

You could prove us all wrong of course, but you'd have to go back and actually answer questions people have asked you and wwithdraw your false accusations and issue a few apologies and then, through the pattern of behaviour, people will be able to discern for themselves whether you are acting in bad faith or not. So I think I would guess that you don't have the ability or the humility to do any of that.

Oh and FYI no one, absolutely no one who is posting in good faith uses bold and large font.  

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by blandy
Personal stuff removed

[magnkarl]

2 hours ago, El Segundo said:

Nope.  Not sure why you would think that.

I'm not entirely sure how you think citing at least two exoduses even older than the Roman one strengthens your case for relevance of what happened 2000 years ago.  Also note that, far from being depopulated after these events,  records indicate that the Jewish population  were still a majority in the area until the 4th Century AD.  After which they became and remained a minority population until the 20th Century.   Palestine wasn't depopulated in 1947 or 1948 either.  It had a majority Muslim/Arab population.  As had been the case since the 12th Century.

I'm not preaching anything. I've stated facts about what happened re Jewish immigration in the 1920s and 1930s under British mandatory control. My research indicates that the Jewish population of Palestine increased by 750% between 1922 and 1947.  The Muslim population grew by 200% over the same period.  Maybe my sources aren't entirely reliable, feel free to provide your own.   The British started to try and control the immigration from 1939 only, restricting it to 75,000 per year for five years, after which it was to be decided by the majority local population.   The paper also called for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the region within 10 years.  Zionists clearly did not agree with the majority having any power.  They viewed the new approach as reneging on the Balfour Declaration (which the Arabs saw as Britain renegeing on the  Hussein-McMahon Correspondence which had promised the Arabs self rule from the Mediterranean to the Persian gulf).  Neither side were happy.  Zionists militias also took arms against the British and committed acts of violence against British and Arab targets. Like the Administrative HQ at the King David Hotel, bombed by Menachim Begin's mob.  It wasn't a one sided thing.

 I don't think it is considered appropriate any longer to refer to Native Americans as "Indians".  I'm a bit confused about what point you are trying to make here.  Are you aligning the Jewish people in this analogy with the Native Americans or the Colonials who ethnically cleansed them onto reservations? 

If the former, then are you saying they have a right to take their original land back? And are you therefore denying the right of the USA to exist in the USA?

If the latter then are you attempting to justify the Colonisation and subsequent ethnic cleansing?  Sorry but it's not clear.

As explained, the date I refer to is not random, there are valid reasons for referring to it.  No-one has to agree with it, but it's not random.  

Ah I see now you would align situation of the Israelis with the plight of the Native Americans.  I refer you to my earlier response about the somewhat unfortunate conclusions that could lead to.  I also refer you to my earlier response about the demographics of the region.  No denial that there were Jews there at all.  

The naivety of my position is a matter of opinion and you are as entitled to yours as I am to mine.  Far more naive in my view to think that the native Americans would have an icicle in hell's chance of reclaiming their land.  Indeed you won't find a Palestinian state after 1920 because it was prevented first by the British and then by the UN and Israelis.  Isn't that at the crux of the whole matter?

The whole point was that you seem to want to use historical points to argue why Israel shouldn’t exist in Israel, just that you want a cut off point for history to be 1920, that way you can ignore the historical reasons why Israel should be where Israel originally was.

It is what it is, you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think the argument works, it’s up there with putting people in reserves in the US and wondering why they’re mad.

’it was so long ago, get over it, go somewhere else. Have this random bit of land instead, someone took your land over’

Edited November 6, 2023 by magnkarl

[magnkarl]

2 hours ago, villa89 said:

If you're Jewish and you support Israel you have to move there? First I've heard of that.

Did I write that? I wrote that the way people are getting harassed in Western capitals is forcing Jews to consider moving to Israel.

[Tumblerseven]

51 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

 Ignoring questions you don't want to answer, denying actual proveable factual arguments, throwing around accusations of hypocrisy in a projecting manner due to the undeniable hypocrisy of your posts.

So didint i retracted my hypocrisy comment to you like two weeks ago? I cant believe that a grown man cries for two weeks about the statement i retracted two weeks ago its unbelievable.

On 24/10/2023 at 19:09, Tumblerseven said:

Okay i retract my comment about hypocrisy

You say i dont answer questions? but you cant name one? or what the problem name the question you want me so much to answer.

Few days ago i asked you do you want to ask me a question?

On 04/11/2023 at 16:09, Tumblerseven said:

@VILLAMARV you ok buddy? you wanted to ask me a question or something? 

On 04/11/2023 at 23:31, VILLAMARV said:

Of all the f***witted posts I've had to contend with over the years yours are without a doubt the most pathetic and disingenuous of the lot. Of course I don't want "to ask you a question or something" 

[mod edit  personal stuff removed]

I love how no person in here who i talked to will not step up and say no this guy is clearly trying to answer question or answering questions. You cant even do this but you will watch how people just blatantly lying about me. Actual no moral compas grown people acting like they are school bulies.

Edited November 6, 2023 by blandy
Breach of guidelines

[avfc1982am]

Should rename this thread Middle Eastenders it's so f***** up and pointless.

[desensitized43]

45 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Should rename this thread Middle Eastenders it's so f***** up and pointless.

I dunno man, middle earth is totally more **** up. I mean, the race of men just stole all the land from the orcs at some unspecified starting point in history so they’re totally within their rights to go and kill as many of them as possible to take it back.

[El Segundo]

52 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The whole point was that you seem to want to use historical points to argue why Israel shouldn’t exist in Israel, just that you want a cut off point for history to be 1920, that way you can ignore the historical reasons why Israel should be where Israel originally was.

It is what it is, you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think the argument works, it’s up there with putting people in reserves in the US and wondering why they’re mad.

’it was so long ago, get over it, go somewhere else. Have this random bit of land instead, someone took your land over’

Yes we are both entitled to our opinions and to disagree with each others. 

I think there's a difference though in that I've attempted to provide a rationale for my opinion, and why it is relevant to the current situation.  

I believe there is a direct and unbroken line of cause and effect from circa 1919 onwards that has created and is still influencing the situation today. I don't believe you can say the same for events of 2000, 2500 or 2700 years ago.  Evidently you do, but I don't see it, especially when you consider the 800-1200 year period where the Jews were a tiny minority in the region. 

You still don't seem to realise that your analogy of the native Americans could apply equally to the Palestinians as to the Israelis - perhaps more so.    

[magnkarl]

37 minutes ago, El Segundo said:

Yes we are both entitled to our opinions and to disagree with each others. 

I think there's a difference though in that I've attempted to provide a rationale for my opinion, and why it is relevant to the current situation.  

I believe there is a direct and unbroken line of cause and effect from circa 1919 onwards that has created and is still influencing the situation today. I don't believe you can say the same for events of 2000, 2500 or 2700 years ago.  Evidently you do, but I don't see it, especially when you consider the 800-1200 year period where the Jews were a tiny minority in the region. 

You still don't seem to realise that your analogy of the native Americans could apply equally to the Palestinians as to the Israelis - perhaps more so.    

Where have I said that the Palestinians shouldn’t have the same rights? In the replies to you I’ve argued for a two state solution. My reaction to you is purely based on you saying Israel doesn’t have a right to be there, but Palestinians somehow have more rights.

Both have a right, one people has a much longer history while the other a more modern one. Neither are wrong. Neither deserves to be told they have no right, like you did.

[El Segundo]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Where have I said that the Palestinians shouldn’t have the same rights? In the replies to you I’ve argued for a two state solution. My reaction to you is purely based on you saying Israel doesn’t have a right to be there, but Palestinians somehow have more rights.

Both have a right, one people has a much longer history while the other a more modern one. Neither are wrong. Neither deserves to be told they have no right, like you did.

I've also said a two state solution is the only viable option.  You obviously put more store by ancient history as to land rights than I do and I guess we'll never agree on that point.