The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

Its not about the offside rule. Its about common sense officiating allowing games to flow where a rule might have technically been infringed. Something everybody benefits from, but VAR will chip at. Ball bounces up onto the right backs arm, then down, ref immediately shouts "play on" and everybody plays on and that's that.

Which is what I agreed with. And I've made the same criticisms about handballs with VAR in the past.

But something like offside is black and white. You're either on or your off.

 

1 hour ago, Genie said:

 

I expect carnage in the premier league. Referee's have a bad enough time already mainly fuelled by the UK media. They are going to want to review everything 10 times on the screen as nobody on or off the pitch will have the balls to make a borderline call. It'll be like WC final every match such is the worldwide scrutiny.

This is the bit I don't agree with. It's not carnage in other top leagues so why would it be any different here?

Again my opinion is in 12 months it won't really be a talking point.

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Which is what I agreed with. And I've made the same criticisms about handballs with VAR in the past.

But something like offside is black and white. You're either on or your off.

 

This is the bit I don't agree with. It's not carnage in other top leagues so why would it be any different here?

Again my opinion is in 12 months it won't really be a talking point.

I think the premier league is a special case due to its worldwide appeal and the British media. I think there will be a hell of a lot of referrals and checks, more than we've seen before. Time will tell of course, but as we know referees are quick to be demoted from PL games when they make a cock up. I think it'll mean they check everything 3 times now they have the option. Accuracy will go up, but we'll see its real world impact over the next 12 months.

If we're not talking about it in 12 months I think it'll be because we've learned to accept it, even if we believe its not right (bit like Qatar World Cup for example).

Edited July 3, 2019 by Genie

[Stevo985]

Just now, Genie said:

I think the premier league is a special case due to its worldwide appeal and the British media. I think there will be a hell of a lot of referrals and checks, more than we've seen before. Time will tell of course, but as we know referees are quick to be demoted from PL games when they make a cock up. I think it'll mean they check everything 3 times now they have the option. Accuracy will go up, but we'll see its real world impact over the next 12 months.

Yeah fair enough. I still don't agree but I can see the concern.

I guess the counter is that referees supposedly can't ask for a review. it's up to VAR to tell the ref if there's something to review (hence my point in the past that players appealing to the ref for him to use VAR is pointless). So he wouldn't have the ability to check everything.

However I'm not 100% sure how well that's enforced, so you could be right.

[sne]

There has been a lot of controversy in France, Germany and Spain in regards to VAR tbf.

But that is to be expected with any rule change and new technology (not goal line technology as that is simples) so not surprising.

VAR might very well end up being a good thing.

For me that is not the case as of yet thou. Does more harm than good to the game as far as I am concerned. 

[villa4europe]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah fair enough. I still don't agree but I can see the concern.

I guess the counter is that referees supposedly can't ask for a review. it's up to VAR to tell the ref if there's something to review (hence my point in the past that players appealing to the ref for him to use VAR is pointless). So he wouldn't have the ability to check everything.

However I'm not 100% sure how well that's enforced, so you could be right.

that's how it has to work IMO

the man in the booth informs the ref, not the ref informing the man in the booth

makes the ref accountable too, if mike dean gets the buzzer on his arm go and the voice in his ear "you might want to take a better look at that mike" and his response is "no thanks" then questions will be asked about him not VAR

[Stevo985]

Just now, villa4europe said:

that's how it has to work IMO

the man in the booth informs the ref, not the ref informing the man in the booth

makes the ref accountable too, if mike dean gets the buzzer on his arm go and the voice in his ear "you might want to take a better look at that mike" and his response is "no thanks" then questions will be asked about him not VAR

Yeah I agree. I'm just couldn't say hand on heart that's how it works. But it absolutely should be that way.

 

It shouldn't be there as a way for ref's to avoid making a decision. As @Genie rightly says, the refs should still have to make those common sense decisions, and then it should be up to VAR to change any that it thinks are wrong (we just disagree on how effective that will be )

100% it should not be up to the ref to call for VAR. I think that would cause all sorts of problems

[kurtsimonw]

While I agree with using common sense, and the existence of the offside rule is just to stop a complete abuse of your position on the field... marginal offside is still offside.

At what point does marginally offside become offside?

As a defender, how do you keep a line when playing someone offside doesn't guarantee them in being offside?

If you change the offside rule to allow for "common sense", you change the way the game is played completely IMO.

Edited July 3, 2019 by kurtsimonw

[sne]

At the same time how far do you go back to check if there was a potential foul when a goal is scored?

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Which is what I agreed with. And I've made the same criticisms about handballs with VAR in the past.

But something like offside is black and white. You're either on or your off.

 

This is the bit I don't agree with. It's not carnage in other top leagues so why would it be any different here?

Again my opinion is in 12 months it won't really be a talking point.

I'll take that - £25 to VT?

Not sure how we can judge it though.

I think it will be the biggest talking point during and after the season.

[villa4europe]

yeah I agree with that, it will be a talking point because talking and writing about football opinions is still a lucrative market 

the reason there isn't noise about VAR in foreign leagues reaching the shores of the UK is because 99.99% of football news from foreign leagues doesn't reach the UK

[Stevo985]

35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I'll take that - £25 to VT?

Not sure how we can judge it though.

I think it will be the biggest talking point during and after the season.

There's no way to judge it.

But my opinion is the decisions from VAR will be talking points, but whether or not we should have VAR won't be. It'll be accepted.

[villa89]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Again my opinion is in 12 months it won't really be a talking point.

It will definitely be a talking point. A huge one because they will still be the pro and anti camps going at it head to head. 

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

There's no way to judge it.

But my opinion is the decisions from VAR will be talking points, but whether or not we should have VAR won't be. It'll be accepted.

I don't but through no fault of VAR itself

You will still get the likes of Saunders and Murphy and the other drips in our media spouting off about it just to garner some sort of reaction, Dave the Liverpool fan from Kent who's been watching football for 40 years will still phone up to say how shit it is and how it should be scrapped

There is meat in it for football phone ins and rent a gobs for years and we unfortunately have far too many of them

You can guarantee Durham is already lining up the first week back, gauging reaction to it and then planning on how he can go against it, while darren gough is coming up with 3 years worth of ways to compare it to cricket

Edited July 3, 2019 by villa4europe

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

There's no way to judge it.

But my opinion is the decisions from VAR will be talking points, but whether or not we should have VAR won't be. It'll be accepted.

how about we create a poll at the end of the season and people can vote on whether or not they believe VAR has been a major talking point during and come the end of the season?

Either way it's £25 to VT so should remove any biased voting.

[bobzy]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Yep. That's it for me. I don't think it's deliberate at all by the defender. But she has denied (albeit accidentally) an almost certain goal. It's a 5 yard tap in that's been denied by contact.

It's a pen for me.

Not at all a penalty for me.  All the contact was initiated by Ellen White(?) - as she swung to kicked a ball, she kicked the USA defenders' leg first.  Of course there's contact, but you're penalising someone for just existing.

We're heading down the route of football being way, way too soft.  Handballs for absolutely anything hitting the hand/arm.  Fouls for literally any contact at all.  It's going to be so shit.

 

(Edit:  But as I think we've all said, that penalty decision shouldn't be reviewed by VAR.  It's not a clear and obvious error as we could all see due to the 5 mins or so the review took.  The offside is clear and easy, so a good VAR review there.)

Edited July 3, 2019 by bobzy

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

 

(Edit:  But as I think we've all said, that penalty decision shouldn't be reviewed by VAR.  It's not a clear and obvious error as we could all see due to the 5 mins or so the review took.  The offside is clear and easy, so a good VAR review there.)

As I said earlier, I think the explanation for that is that it's clear and obvious that the ref missed something, i.e. the contact. It's then up to the ref to decide if it's a foul.

It doesn't have to be clear and obvious that it's a foul.

But the wording is stupid, They need to ditch the clear and obvious stuff.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

how about we create a poll at the end of the season and people can vote on whether or not they believe VAR has been a major talking point during and come the end of the season?

Either way it's £25 to VT so should remove any biased voting.

Well no because it absolutely will be a talking point during the season.

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

As I said earlier, I think the explanation for that is that it's clear and obvious that the ref missed something, i.e. the contact. It's then up to the ref to decide if it's a foul.

It doesn't have to be clear and obvious that it's a foul.

But the wording is stupid, They need to ditch the clear and obvious stuff.

Isn't the wording "clear and obvious error"?  That wasn't an error.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Isn't the wording "clear and obvious error"?  That wasn't an error.

Yeah maybe. Now I'm doubting myself.

Either way it's a stupid phrase that just adds confusion.

[ender4]

They should use VAR with an appeals system... the manager or captain gets 2 appeals per match to request VAR.

Edited July 4, 2019 by ender4