villa4europe Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: They'll either have to reign in VAR use for it or change the rules. that to me is what you cant do if you argue that VAR can establish fact on offside decisions then you have to use it, in for a penny in for a pound because the media will use it for a stick to beat you with if you don't, there will be vultures circling waiting for the 1st VAR **** up and that **** up for me is the 1st time that VAR shows something that the ref doesn't use 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 So VAR is corrupt. What a shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 It's not started well has it. Reviewing the SJM incident, but not even looking at the Rose v Grealish incident which the ref missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 How a penalty on McGinn was not given is farcical, undermines the entire system. If was other way around its a penalty and prob a red card.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Didn't think it was a penalty tbh. Looking at the other games, Watford not getting a penalty when Brighton player handled a free kick was bizarre. Bit of a nonsense when you think penalties given in CL for not even deliberate handballs. There was also an interesting one in the Palace-Everton game, Palace player went in very high but didn't get sent off. Maybe a case of it just looked worse at real speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 14 hours ago, Zatman said: How a penalty on McGinn was not given is farcical, undermines the entire system. If was other way around its a penalty and prob a red card.. It was definitely not a penalty, and wouldn't have been the other way either. if it was corrupt, they could've easily given a handball penalty against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 11, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 11, 2019 Offsides need to be quicker. That seems the biggest issue with it coming out of this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Two incisive comments I’ve heard today. Nuno saying it’s wrong that celebrating a disallowed goal is becoming as much a thing as celebrating an actual goal. Dead right. Martin Samuel making the point that whereas the fan who had actually attended a game used to be the best informed person, he was now the least informed. Again, spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 There was a VAR check at the game yesterday and about five opinions what it was for within five seats of me. And I still don’t know. Left the ground not knowing. Farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 12, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2019 I would guess we’ve all been to matches where a goal has been scored, the supporters celebrate, the referee has a chat to the linesman/assistant, the goal is disallowed and the opposing supporters celebrate that decision. I don’t really see how an overturned decision made by VAR is massively different in that regard. The celebration of a “no goal” has been fairly common for years. Do supporters not cheer when an opposition player fluffs his lines and misses? Isn’t that akin to celebration of a “no goal”? As for supporters not having an idea of what’s happened, I think there’s always been an element of that. Did every Villa supporter at Elland Road understand why El Ghazi got sent off? You can watch some Leeds fans reactions to clearly see they have no idea why Villa were allowed to score. FWIW, the non goal in the Leicester- Wolves games probably should have counted in my opinion, but by the letter of the law, it was correctly disallowed. I wonder how vocal Nuno will be when it benefits his side. I’m broadly in support of VAR but can understand the frustration and criticism of it and I don’t think it’s being used as well as it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 12 hours ago, terrytini said: There was a VAR check at the game yesterday and about five opinions what it was for within five seats of me. And I still don’t know. Left the ground not knowing. Farcical. Don't the big screens literally say what VAR is checking? I don't know people are after. It seems like "VAR" is just something to blame for a stoppage, rather than the usual ref/assistant ref having a chat. Or maybe that's better because they can be seen chatting or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Just now, bobzy said: Don't the big screens literally say what VAR is checking? I don't know people are after. It seems like "VAR" is just something to blame for a stoppage, rather than the usual ref/assistant ref having a chat. Or maybe that's better because they can be seen chatting or something. It said “ checking Red Card”. I won’t comment on the rest, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 On 10/08/2019 at 16:32, Chindie said: The guidelines for offside will have to change. Having people be ruled offside for tiny margins, margins they can't possibly be seen by a human in motion, and that ultimately don't really make a difference, is nonsense. They'll either have to reign in VAR use for it or change the rules. On 10/08/2019 at 16:40, villa4europe said: that to me is what you cant do if you argue that VAR can establish fact on offside decisions then you have to use it, in for a penny in for a pound because the media will use it for a stick to beat you with if you don't, there will be vultures circling waiting for the 1st VAR **** up and that **** up for me is the 1st time that VAR shows something that the ref doesn't use But the argument shouldn't be "oooh, he was 1mm offside" (which using technology probably actually couldn't decipher), it should be whether it was "clear and obvious". The better thing for football to do with offsides is take the same approach as cricket on LBW reviews where they cannot determine if the ball is hitting the stumps. The review will be called too close and umpire's call on the field will remain. Do the same with offsides. If you can't tell at a glance that the forward has strayed, then go with whatever was (or wasn't) decided on the pitch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, terrytini said: It said “ checking Red Card”. I won’t comment on the rest, In which case, you knew they were checking for a possible red card. You'd have absolutely no idea what was going on if the referees were just talking. Surely, that's actually more information than before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said: I would guess we’ve all been to matches where a goal has been scored, the supporters celebrate, the referee has a chat to the linesman/assistant, the goal is disallowed and the opposing supporters celebrate that decision. I don’t really see how an overturned decision made by VAR is massively different in that regard. The celebration of a “no goal” has been fairly common for years. Do supporters not cheer when an opposition player fluffs his lines and misses? Isn’t that akin to celebration of a “no goal”? As for supporters not having an idea of what’s happened, I think there’s always been an element of that. Did every Villa supporter at Elland Road understand why El Ghazi got sent off? You can watch some Leeds fans reactions to clearly see they have no idea why Villa were allowed to score. FWIW, the non goal in the Leicester- Wolves games probably should have counted in my opinion, but by the letter of the law, it was correctly disallowed. I wonder how vocal Nuno will be when it benefits his side. I’m broadly in support of VAR but can understand the frustration and criticism of it and I don’t think it’s being used as well as it could be. I’m very in favour of VAR, but still have issues over it. I agree there’s always been celebrating then finding out it’s gone against you, and vice verse. And always been stuff happen that you don’t know the explanation for. And it has to be said, when Spurs scored, the hopeful wait for a VAR referral was anew and exciting addition. Had there been one and it overturned the goal it would’ve been memorably spectacular ! Not convinced just telling us “ VAR Red Card” is the best we should hope for though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: In which case, you knew they were checking for a possible red card. You'd have absolutely no idea what was going on if the referees were just talking. Surely, that's actually more information than before? In one respect yes, and very welcome...but it wasn’t clear what incident the6 were talking about, nor which player, or team, it referred to, or when it referred to. Pre VAR Play would stop immediately the Ref had a concern and it was easier to see those things. All easily solvable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I am a fan of VAR. In favour. Pro. All for it. Nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, bobzy said: But the argument shouldn't be "oooh, he was 1mm offside" (which using technology probably actually couldn't decipher), it should be whether it was "clear and obvious". The better thing for football to do with offsides is take the same approach as cricket on LBW reviews where they cannot determine if the ball is hitting the stumps. The review will be called too close and umpire's call on the field will remain. Do the same with offsides. If you can't tell at a glance that the forward has strayed, then go with whatever was (or wasn't) decided on the pitch. i don't necessarily disagree with that but again as long as its clearly defined and then they achieve consistency offsides should be the easiest thin for VAR to clear up, got no problem with it being 1mm and them trying to attach fact to it, don't mind them putting fact on encroachment for penalties either the grey areas such as handballs and fouls will be the main thing, the McGinn one for example, tackles a lot worse than that will be checked and not given, tackles softer than that will be checked and given, that's going to be the biggest problem once its settled down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 12, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2019 The problem with offsides is it's always going to go down to mm. If you change the law for it to be just feet that can be offside, which I've heard mentioned, then it's still going to be mm based on players' feet. If you change it to "daylight" then it's still going to be mm in it. Even if you say well you've got to be at least half a metre offside to be offside then you'll still get cases when it's 0.4999m If we've got the technology to measure these things to that margin then we'll always have that problem. The main problem with offside is the speed. Like I said before, I think the next advancement could be real time offside decisions using technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 On 10/08/2019 at 19:14, Zatman said: So VAR is corrupt. What a shock VAR isn't corrupt. People are. In which case, nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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