The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

Wilson one is a pen. Player sticks his leg across Wilson's run, might be minimal contact but he's impeded his run and not got the ball, you can't stick your leg out like that you are just asking for trouble. 

If given on the field sure, but it isn't enough of a foul to be actively overturned. Especially as in the same game, the defender got the ball and VAR didn't think they should overturn.

[colhint]

Maybe if you get 3 letters from pgmol you get an extra point.

[AndyM3000]

29 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

If given on the field sure, but it isn't enough of a foul to be actively overturned. Especially as in the same game, the defender got the ball and VAR didn't think they should overturn.

Yeh with how they have set this process up perhaps right, but this is what I dislike the most about VAR. If it's given on field they will stick with it, if it's not they wont decide it's a pen or vice versa. Just make consistent decisions and it would stop half the problems the fans have, they are the league officials, either its a foul or it's not. VAR has just added another level of officials and inconsistent decisions to me.

 

 

[Pongo's Socks]

3 hours ago, imavillan said:

you lost me at Adrian Durham 

what an absolute 

I used to think the same, he was the equivalent of Jeremy Kyle. Lazy, bear-baiting, sensationalist crap. But I actually don't think he's too bad since he's given up that drive time slot and just commentates. And he agrees with me on VAR. 

[villa4europe]

9 minutes ago, Pongo's Socks said:

I used to think the same, he was the equivalent of Jeremy Kyle. Lazy, bear-baiting, sensationalist crap. But I actually don't think he's too bad since he's given up that drive time slot and just commentates. And he agrees with me on VAR. 

in that its not just a PL problem?

its not, but at the same time "its shit everywhere" is not a reason to accept it, refs are also really poor everywhere and more importantly the difference in opinions between the fans and the rules makers is probably as big as its ever been

VAR technology is not the problem, the refs are

Edited November 28, 2023 by villa4europe

[Pongo's Socks]

45 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

in that its not just a PL problem?

its not, but at the same time "its shit everywhere" is not a reason to accept it, refs are also really poor everywhere and more importantly the difference in opinions between the fans and the rules makers is probably as big as its ever been

VAR technology is not the problem, the refs are

I'm not saying that because it's crap everywhere we must accept it. I'm saying every country should f**k it off where it belongs, in the bin, and give us our beautiful, but sometimes flawed, game back. 

[villa4europe]

25 minutes ago, Pongo's Socks said:

I'm not saying that because it's crap everywhere we must accept it. I'm saying every country should f**k it off where it belongs, in the bin, and give us our beautiful, but sometimes flawed, game back. 

but just like the approach that VAR will fix things removing VAR wont fix things

at the core of it all the refs still aren't good enough and the law makers keep **** about with the laws, that needs to change first or we go nowhere 

[Stevo985]

17 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I just don’t understand the logic of it. Ok, the 1st wolves pen, there isn’t enough to overturn the onfield decision of penalty despite the defender looking like he got a touch, but there’s enough to overturn the decision of no penalty on the 2nd?

they absolutely don’t have a clue what they’re doing do they?

And since when wasn’t contact with your head on someone’s face not a red?

**** appalling and I don’t like wolves at all 

This whole way it works is a real issue.

I don't agree with the decisions from last night.

But this high bar, clear and obvious nonsense just makes it so unclear.

 

If you think it's a penalty and the ref hasn't given it, then it should be reviewed. Preferably by the **** ref. And vice versa.

Why add more variables? Oh I think the ref is wrong but it's not obvious enough for me to tell him so I won't bother. But this next one is slightly more obvious so I will tell him.

It's nonsense

[Spoony]

6 hours ago, bobzy said:

To some extent I agree, but the refs have to know what the **** they're looking at.

That Fulham penalty at the end of the game last night - it's just not a foul, right?  There's a] Not enough contact to actually impede Wilson and b] Wilson is going down as soon as he feels any contact whatsoever.

The referee, actually refereeing the game, waves play on which - to me - is the right call.  VAR then suggest he looks at a monitor where they slow the play right down so you lose any context of pace or intent or anything, just a real slo-mo of some contact on Wilson's leg.  That's enough - penalty.  It's just not good enough.  They need to understand what a foul is, not "well there's contact and it isn't with the ball".

 

(FWIW, I reckon most fans of most clubs would want a penalty for it because this is what the game is now).

So is that an issue with VAR or an issue with the rules, or both? Legally speaking why isn’t it a foul?

Just playing devils advocate here as I agree it SHOULDN’T be a penalty, but whether by the letter of the law it IS a penalty is another matter. 

[bobzy]

40 minutes ago, Spoony said:

So is that an issue with VAR or an issue with the rules, or both? Legally speaking why isn’t it a foul?

Just playing devils advocate here as I agree it SHOULDN’T be a penalty, but whether by the letter of the law it IS a penalty is another matter. 

VAR is a referee, so it's an issue with the referees.

I don't think it's a foul legally speaking/by the letter of the law as I don't think Wilson is actually impeded.  He can still get the ball, he chooses to flop under little contact.  When you see that on a slo-mo replay, it looks worse.  The same way people on here post a still image of a "studs up" challenge and declare it a red; the slo-mo/still images remove all context in an incident and they're a problem.

 

Edit:  I'll also say it's absolutely nowhere near the worst decision of the season and, as per earlier, I think if that was a Villa player going down we'd be calling for a penalty.  It doesn't mean I think it should be a penalty, but this whole "there's contact" seems to be a big thing for people.

Edited November 28, 2023 by bobzy

[Straggler]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

but just like the approach that VAR will fix things removing VAR wont fix things

at the core of it all the refs still aren't good enough and the law makers keep **** about with the laws, that needs to change first or we go nowhere 

I disagree. Removing VAR in it's current form is totally logical. This iteration needs to be understood to be making the game worse not better and binned off. The amount of change required to make it work well is not achievable over a single close season. Yes the officials are the problem, they are beyond hopeless and are so caught up in their referee bubble that there is no hope of change. 

A new generation of VAR official needs to be created and it needs to be independent of the match day team. They need to be able to implement the laws of the game without fear or favour for the teams playing or for their mates (because they won't be mates anymore) officiating the game.  

However to do this they will have to admit that they screwed the pooch by appointing the people that are running VAR right now. They need some proper modern professionals in there. They did the equivalent of putting Gerard in charge. Great history in the game, totally unsuited to the managerial role.

 

 

[Pongo's Socks]

6 hours ago, villa4europe said:

but just like the approach that VAR will fix things removing VAR wont fix things

at the core of it all the refs still aren't good enough and the law makers keep **** about with the laws, that needs to change first or we go nowhere 

Some of us said before it was introduced that it wouldn't fix things. As long as there is human intervention mistakes will happen. And that's my point that I will keep repeating. Its a game played, reffed, and watched by humans. This expectation of perfection is unrealistic and, to be honest, typical of today's arrogant, want-it-all-now society. One thing we agree on is the need for better officiating, and to stop pissing around with the laws of the game. But you'll never convince me the game is better than it was before VAR, and it never will be. Just give us our game back.

[Adman]

Ban slow motion, and replay it 5 times.  If you can't see a mistake in the original decision - move on

[MrBlack]

VAR should never have referred that handball to the referee. It's a crystal clear, by the book, non handball. I refer to a quote from some less than reliable website (Not sure why the radio Times was the first search result), but explains the point...

Quote

UEFA introduced some guidelines in an attempt to introduce more consistency to its implementation.

These include recommendations that handball should not be called if the ball has deflected off another part of a player's body, as well as more leniency toward showing yellow and red cards to players after non-intentional handballs.

Well Uefa, your best referee just ignored your recommendations. Lol.

Wonder how much he's getting paid by Qatar.

Edited November 28, 2023 by MrBlack

[Vive_La_Villa]

Corruption aside maybe he was told he messed up a few other close calls and that was his chance to even things up.

It is pretty scandalous but at least happened to Newcastle for once. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

6 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

This whole way it works is a real issue.

I don't agree with the decisions from last night.

But this high bar, clear and obvious nonsense just makes it so unclear.

 

If you think it's a penalty and the ref hasn't given it, then it should be reviewed. Preferably by the **** ref. And vice versa.

Why add more variables? Oh I think the ref is wrong but it's not obvious enough for me to tell him so I won't bother. But this next one is slightly more obvious so I will tell him.

It's nonsense

I think the clear and obvious thing isn’t that difficult to follow. Do you think it’s a penalty or not a penalty after looking at it few times ? If the answer is ‘I’m still not sure’ then you stay with refs decision. End of. 
 

How the VAR can look at the second penalty decision yesterday a few times and be sure that was a penalty. I have no idea.  There’s even two of them reviewing it before the ref goes to the screen.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa

[Adman]

Heads will roll for this.  Or hands...or arms, that would be fitting.

[Stevo985]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think the clear and obvious thing isn’t that difficult to follow. Do you think it’s a penalty or not a penalty after looking at it few times ? If the answer is ‘I’m still not sure’ then you stay with refs decision. End of. 
 

But it doesn’t work like that. Like I said it’s just another variable. 

[a-k]

 

[a-k]

There is no clear intent (and that's an understatement) and it does not stop a goal-scoring opportunity. Why does it deserve a penalty? The penalty rule was not introduced to give even a 0.01% of a grievance a 99% chance of a goal.