General Election 2017

[PompeyVillan]

#TheresaMayGIFs on Twitter is worth a look. I chuckled.

[peterms]

2 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

#TheresaMayGIFs on Twitter is worth a look. I chuckled.

Telegraph has a piece including 25 of those.

25!  The Telegraph!

Maximum embarrassment.  Her campaign will be pretty demoralised.

[Chindie]

7 hours ago, Risso said:

It's almost as if they have a media department whose job it is to post stuff like that.  The rotters.

Who said I was criticising them?

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

9 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

The rest of Europe must be shitting themselves that May is likely to uncross her legs, Sharon Stone style.

 

"Welcome to the driest place on earth" 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Amsterdam_Neil_D

[peterms]

9 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

Man complains he might have to pay marginally more tax on his kids private education so poorer families can afford to put food on the table. Why shouldn't he pay his workers peanuts so his kids can get a better education from the private sector because of repeated cuts in the public one?!

It truly amazes, no depresses me that there are people like this in the world. We live in a world all about 'me' now. 

A couple more things about this one.  For those who didn't see it, the question was on the lines of "I come from salt-of-the-earth working class stock.  We voted Labour.  I run a small business.  Why have you made it impossible for me to vote Labour, with your plans to increase Corporation Tax, restrict zero hours contracts, increase the minimum wage, and put VAT on private schooling?"

So, basically saying he wants to directly exploit his staff, having them on low wages with no security, in order to spend the money he has sucked out of them on things that most people, in fact just about everyone, would see as a luxury.  Apart from the grasping selfishness and utter lack of empathy or self-awareness he showed, I was thinking the Federation of Small Businesses must have been watching through their fingers, aghast at the impression the guy was giving about their sector.

What was interesting was that Corbyn directly tackled the question in several ways - points about the actual problems facing small businesses which have been raised with him, like late payment and poor treatment by big business; defending the need for public funding of public services, asking the man to support that wider vision because it benefits all of us; pointing out that paying people living wages both reduces the cost to government of subsidising people in low-paid work, and explaining that they will spend their increased income, directly benefitting the economy including small businesses.  I don't recall him answering the private schooling point, whether because he ran out of time or whatever.

Obviously he wasn't going to make any headway with Mr Selfish, and he could maybe have said something explaining that the tories really don't act in support of small business despite the rhetoric, but what was interesting was the way he directly engaged with the points and with the questioner, trying to lift it out of narrow self-interest and justifying his approach on the basis of coherent and logical explanation.  No evasiveness or bluster.  It was the kind of answer that will have left many undecideds thinking "Hmm, I see" rather than "There he goes again".  It also leaves many people feeling this isn't the person they've read about.

[Demitri_C]

One thing i will say why is that bloke who said "bollocks" when may was talking about nhs being labelled a hero? I find that expression ridiculous. Yes she was talking bollocks but jesus a hero gimme a break. Heroes are those that like the emergency forces that try keep up safe. Not for stupidness like this.

[Dr_Pangloss]

10 hours ago, dAVe80 said:

One thing I found very concerning is the people in the audience whooping, when May kept saying, no deal was better than a bad deal. Would that not completely crash the economy, if we lose the money we get from exports to the EU? I don't think they'd be whooping then.

I thought Paxman played her on this, basically got her to repeat that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' several times, and whilst this sound bite worked with sections of the audience, it's quite clear that no deal would be an utter disaster from a trade perspective and would lead to incredible economic uncertainty. 

I wonder if that might come back to haunt her. 

[PaulC]

47 minutes ago, peterms said:

A couple more things about this one.  For those who didn't see it, the question was on the lines of "I come from salt-of-the-earth working class stock.  We voted Labour.  I run a small business.  Why have you made it impossible for me to vote Labour, with your plans to increase Corporation Tax, restrict zero hours contracts, increase the minimum wage, and put VAT on private schooling?"

So, basically saying he wants to directly exploit his staff, having them on low wages with no security, in order to spend the money he has sucked out of them on things that most people, in fact just about everyone, would see as a luxury.  Apart from the grasping selfishness and utter lack of empathy or self-awareness he showed, I was thinking the Federation of Small Businesses must have been watching through their fingers, aghast at the impression the guy was giving about their sector.

What was interesting was that Corbyn directly tackled the question in several ways - points about the actual problems facing small businesses which have been raised with him, like late payment and poor treatment by big business; defending the need for public funding of public services, asking the man to support that wider vision because it benefits all of us; pointing out that paying people living wages both reduces the cost to government of subsidising people in low-paid work, and explaining that they will spend their increased income, directly benefitting the economy including small businesses.  I don't recall him answering the private schooling point, whether because he ran out of time or whatever.

Obviously he wasn't going to make any headway with Mr Selfish, and he could maybe have said something explaining that the tories really don't act in support of small business despite the rhetoric, but what was interesting was the way he directly engaged with the points and with the questioner, trying to lift it out of narrow self-interest and justifying his approach on the basis of coherent and logical explanation.  No evasiveness or bluster.  It was the kind of answer that will have left many undecideds thinking "Hmm, I see" rather than "There he goes again".  It also leaves many people feeling this isn't the person they've read about.

I agree in theory what you are saying but what happens if by increasing minimum wage to £10 increase on corporation tax  either drives a lot of small busineses under or forces them to cut their staff. It could be counter-productive. I think govts need to tackle the problem of people buying property to let and charging exorbitant rent prices. Cut rent prices.

[darrenm]

47 minutes ago, peterms said:

It also leaves many people feeling this isn't the person they've read about.

I've spoken to a few friends and family who aren't normally interested in politics recently and it's quite startling just how much they take on board exactly what the media tells them.

The overwhelming response has been 'I voted leave because I thought we needed to have control of ourselves and look after ourselves. I think Theresa May will be the best one to get the job done and she'll just get on with it'

'What do you think of Corbyn?'

'He's an idiot isn't he? He's a clown'

These are typically people who read tabloids. They haven't done any further research into anything but they've been guided into Brexit and then trusting Theresa May while disliking Jeremy Corbyn purely by Dacre, Murdoch and Barclays.

It's really disturbing and it's like mass hypnosis and subliminal programming. It's another reason we have to break this circle of power held between the Tories and their masters who control them, how their money flows and the population. It's nice seeing how terrified they are at the moment seeing the mud slinging not having enough of an effect and getting ever more desperate.

[peterms]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

I agree in theory what you are saying but what happens if by increasing minimum wage to £10 increase on corporation tax  either drives a lot of small busineses under or forces them to cut their staff. It could be counter-productive. I think govts need to tackle the problem of people buying property to let and charging exorbitant rent prices. Cut rent prices.

I agree we have to tackle property prices, both housing and commercial.  What is happening is that landlords are extracting value in return for nothing, while people engaged in productive activity just funnel more of their worked-for income to rentiers who sit back and watch it roll in.

At the moment, we have a situation where small businesses struggling to get by may in some cases exploit their staff, while at the same time themselves being exploited by rentiers.  It's a parasitic model that sucks wealth up from the bottom to the top - wealth creators, my arse.  Wealth extractors would be a more accurate term.

Land value tax is one approach.  Returning to a system where we distinguish earned and unearned income would help, with unearned income being taxed higher.  Direct intervention in the commercial property market by local authorities, using compulsory purchase to take property off landlords and make it available on reasonable terms to small businesses doing something useful would also help.  All these things are achievable.

[Risso]

There was no mention of the fact that for a lot of people, zero hours contracts work perfectly well and they choose to be on them. They don't need banning, they need controls and safeguards to stop the Mike Ashleys of the world exploiting people.

[PompeyVillan]

Most commentators saying last night was a score draw, if not slightly favourable for Labour. Which in reality is a big win for Labour really.

May getting smashed on social media isn't hugely surprisingly as generally younger people are quite active on Twitter and the like. I've seen loads of Twitter polls with Labour 50% ahead of the Conservatives. As if. That may happen in the under 25 demographic, but that's the age group least likely to vote.

[darrenm]

8 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I agree in theory what you are saying but what happens if by increasing minimum wage to £10 increase on corporation tax  either drives a lot of small busineses under or forces them to cut their staff. It could be counter-productive. I think govts need to tackle the problem of people buying property to let and charging exorbitant rent prices. Cut rent prices.

From £7.50 an hour to £10 will drive small businesses under? If they have to exploit their staff to survive they're not a viable business.

And corporation tax at 26% will still be below what it was in 2010 and lower than all G7 countries. At 19% we're vastly underselling this country. We're doing the equivalent of charging people 20p to swim in our pool while others are happy to pay £3 to swim in other pools.

Here's the G7 tax rates

(UK now 19% and will be 17% by 2020) 

We're vastly below even the cheapest there and becoming an ultra tax haven. "The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.” said Jean-Baptiste Colbert. That sounds a bit like 26% to me.

This is corporate tax since 1971. It's a race to the bottom of neoliberalism and needs a course correction

[mjmooney]

2 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Most commentators saying last night was a score draw, if not slightly favourable for Labour. Which in reality is a big win for Labour really.

May getting smashed on social media isn't hugely surprisingly as generally younger people are quite active on Twitter and the like. I've seen loads of Twitter polls with Labour 50% ahead of the Conservatives. As if. That may happen in the under 25 demographic, but that's the age group least likely to vote.

Yeah, I think the effect of the polls ends up neutral. A Labour surge may encourage those who previously thought it was a waste of time to actually go out and vote. But at the same time it will alarm the casual Tories out of complacency and get them out too. 

[omariqy]

Much like Brexit I think the tory voters are the silent majority. I think they will still win. Nice to see Corbyn fight back well though. 

[peterms]

12 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

May getting smashed on social media isn't hugely surprisingly as generally younger people are quite active on Twitter and the like. I've seen loads of Twitter polls with Labour 50% ahead of the Conservatives. As if. That may happen in the under 25 demographic, but that's the age group least likely to vote.

If I were on Corbyn's team, at this stage I'd be interested mainly in two things.

First, using the two issues of social care costs and triple lock to maximum advantage among the older demographic, to get as many as possible not to vote tory or even switch.

Second, trying to increase the voting rate among the younger demographic, among whom he has a stratospheric lead.

The value of what's on social media is not so much about May being smashed, but whether it can be used to push the turnout.

[MakemineVanilla]

30 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I agree in theory what you are saying but what happens if by increasing minimum wage to £10 increase on corporation tax  either drives a lot of small busineses under or forces them to cut their staff. It could be counter-productive. I think govts need to tackle the problem of people buying property to let and charging exorbitant rent prices. Cut rent prices.

Some people think that there is about to be a robotics revolution which will mean jobs will disappear; there has to be a point where increasing labour costs make investing in robotics increasingly viable.

I heard somewhere that Foxconn's solution to the suicide problem was not to improve the jobs but to bring in more automation.

There are plenty of speeches from Labour suggesting that minimum-wage jobs are an evil which should be eradicated and Corbyn has gone as far as to promise every new job will be a good one.

These perorations are always greeted with cries of hallelujah and a round of applause but so does the claim that the lamb will lie down with the lion.

[mjmooney]

21 minutes ago, peterms said:

If I were on Corbyn's team, at this stage I'd be interested mainly in two things.

First, using the two issues of social care costs and triple lock to maximum advantage among the older demographic, to get as many as possible not to vote tory or even switch.

Second, trying to increase the voting rate among the younger demographic, among whom he has a stratospheric lead.

The value of what's on social media is not so much about May being smashed, but whether it can be used to push the turnout.

Nail. Head. 

[darrenm]

They seem to going back to the pensioners now, knowing they have the young vote sewn up. Turning just a few percent of those will make a big difference. Unfortunately they're the hardest to turn being in general more trusting of the media.

The heating allowance seemed to be a weak point for my hugely Tory anti Corbyn in-laws.

[PaulC]

It all sounds fantastic but when Corbyn doesn't know what it will cost to provide free childcare you have to question the realism of it all. I don't think he knows what he doing.