Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[blandy]

48 minutes ago, Awol said:

Remember the Russian Foreign Ministry claim about a Swiss laboratory casting doubt on the Salisbury/Novichok findings? They were lying their tits off, for a change. 

 

This type of thing - the absolute, blatant, no effort made to even hide the dishonesty, complete, open lying by the Russian state. It's the type of thing that's been exposed and showed up over and over and over again - it's what is incredibly infuriating and disappointing about the various conspiracy theory bloggers and their followers on twitter etc. They surely, absolutely, know this, too. They surely know the utter, open, transparent, repeated, deliberate dishonesty and murderous and corrupt conduct of the Russian state, over and over again, yet they still rattle away that the West, or the UK, or whoever is doing all kinds of shenanigans and they cast no, or next to no sceptism in the direction of Russia or its motives or its statements. They pose as inquisitive, open minded sceptics, but the reality is they are anything but. The trait from them and the Jeremy Corbyn types to repeatedly give Russia the benefit of the doubt and the UK no benefit of doubt in the face of this Russian lying is just niaive at best and utterly stupid at medium and downright aiding a foreign state in it's malicious activities against the UK at worst. Always starting from the persepective that the UK Gov't or the West is in the wrong, in the face of all the evidence is astounding.

None of which is to say the Western or UK Governments aren't capable and haven't on occasion  been guilty of wrongdoing and such like, but a starting point that the UK Gov't is our enemy in terms of things like Syria and Salisbury is indeed useful idiocy.

[villakram]

4 hours ago, blandy said:

This type of thing - the absolute, blatant, no effort made to even hide the dishonesty, complete, open lying by the Russian state. It's the type of thing that's been exposed and showed up over and over and over again - it's what is incredibly infuriating and disappointing about the various conspiracy theory bloggers and their followers on twitter etc. They surely, absolutely, know this, too. They surely know the utter, open, transparent, repeated, deliberate dishonesty and murderous and corrupt conduct of the Russian state, over and over again, yet they still rattle away that the West, or the UK, or whoever is doing all kinds of shenanigans and they cast no, or next to no sceptism in the direction of Russia or its motives or its statements. They pose as inquisitive, open minded sceptics, but the reality is they are anything but. The trait from them and the Jeremy Corbyn types to repeatedly give Russia the benefit of the doubt and the UK no benefit of doubt in the face of this Russian lying is just niaive at best and utterly stupid at medium and downright aiding a foreign state in it's malicious activities against the UK at worst. Always starting from the persepective that the UK Gov't or the West is in the wrong, in the face of all the evidence is astounding.

None of which is to say the Western or UK Governments aren't capable and haven't on occasion  been guilty of wrongdoing and such like, but a starting point that the UK Gov't is our enemy in terms of things like Syria and Salisbury is indeed useful idiocy.

Russia is your enemy in Syria... what?

The UK is allied with the jihad types so? Or are there still some moderate rebels in hiding somewhere.

There are differences between the sides, but the use of the term enemy is dangerous.

[bickster]

14 minutes ago, villakram said:

Russia is your enemy in Syria... what?

The UK is allied with the jihad types so? Or are there still some moderate rebels in hiding somewhere.

There are differences between the sides, but the use of the term enemy is dangerous.

Russia is pretty much our enemy. That's why they've utilised a CW attack in our sovereign territory. That's why they are continually interfering in our elections with their troll farms. They are also spreading lies and falsehoods about the UK on Russia Today their wholly owned state propaganda channel

We've applied sanctions to Russia

So yes, they are our enemy in or our of Syria.

[Awol]

7 minutes ago, villakram said:

Russia is your enemy in Syria... what?

The UK is allied with the jihad types so? Or are there still some moderate rebels in hiding somewhere.

There are differences between the sides, but the use of the term enemy is dangerous.

Russia used a nerve agent to attack targets in the UK, in what way does that not qualify as the action of an “enemy”?

For the record, Assad emptied his jails of 100’s of jihadi terrorists at the beginning of the war he launched on his own people. His aim from the beginning was to undermine the democratic opposition and turn the outcome into a Hobson’s choice of him or the jihadists. 

Similarly when Russia got involved they immediately targeted the few remaining FSA units that were not aligned with the jihadists.

Now, as you say, they are the only alternative to Assad, that doesn’t mean he should get a pass for using chemical weapons on anyone.  

[blandy]

8 minutes ago, villakram said:

Russia is your enemy in Syria... what?

The UK is allied with the jihad types so? Or are there still some moderate rebels in hiding somewhere.

There are differences between the sides, but the use of the term enemy is dangerous.

Akram, you may have misread, perhaps, because I don't anywhere say that Russia is our enemy. They're not (though they are engaged in some profoundly unsettling acts and words against the UK). 

And re your comment that The use of the term emenmy is dangerous - yes, exactly, that's absolutely my point -- where I say the words "a starting point that the UK Gov't is our enemy in terms of things like Syria and Salisbury is indeed useful idiocy" -  it's an (oblique, I admit), reference to this bullshit from one of loopy Blogger Craig Murray's posts. So in essence we both agree (I think) Craig Murray is entering dangerous territory.

Quote

Note the British government are the enemy – not in any way the people of England. 

 

[Awol]

Disagree there, Pete. Although Russia as a country may not be our enemy Putin definitely is, which for now at least means the same thing. 

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, Awol said:

Disagree there, Pete. Although Russia as a country may not be our enemy Putin definitely is, which for now at least means the same thing. 

Fair enough Jon. I think maybe we're both of the view that Russia as a nation isn't our enemy, but Putin is acting in a hostile way towards the UK.

 just wanted to respond to @villakram's post where he's maybe misunderstood the point of my original posting, (if I've not misunderstood him). Personalyl I don't think the nation of Russia is our enemy - there's all kinds of stuff where we're contentedly co-operating with Russia and Russians and we're not at war or anything, despite the crap from Putin and his lackeys.

[villakram]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

Fair enough Jon. I think maybe we're both of the view that Russia as a nation isn't our enemy, but Putin is acting in a hostile way towards the UK.

 just wanted to respond to @villakram's post where he's maybe misunderstood the point of my original posting, (if I've not misunderstood him). Personalyl I don't think the nation of Russia is our enemy - there's all kinds of stuff where we're contentedly co-operating with Russia and Russians and we're not at war or anything, despite the crap from Putin and his lackeys.

Cheers, I just want us to be careful. Go read the sleepwalkers (https://www.amazon.com/Sleepwalkers-How-Europe-Went-1914/dp/0061146668).

We will be just as responsible as "them" should things get out of hand. More care is required, while politicos and the tabloids may be careless with their language, I think we should and can be much more circumspect.

[PompeyVillan]

I believe the Russian state to be an enemy of the UK. For what it's worth, I should imagine that the British government consider Putin's Russia to be an enemy too. 

[Awol]

Putting this here because it might involve Russia soon - and seven years into the Syrian war seems a bit late to start a thread on it...

But, Israel has (allegedly) hammered Iranian & Hezbollah targets in Syria tonight. Not sure what ordnance the IRGC was accumulating but one raid hit something big enough to set off a bang registering 2.6 on the Richter scale.   

The ratchet to a major conflagration in Syria keeps clicking higher. 

[villakram]

13 hours ago, Awol said:

Putting this here because it might involve Russia soon - and seven years into the Syrian war seems a bit late to start a thread on it...

But, Israel has (allegedly) hammered Iranian & Hezbollah targets in Syria tonight. Not sure what ordnance the IRGC was accumulating but one raid hit something big enough to set off a bang registering 2.6 on the Richter scale.   

The ratchet to a major conflagration in Syria keeps clicking higher. 

Ya... by "us" though.

Continued pre-emptive acts of war by Israel, getting a free pass yet again. When this comes back to bite, and it eventually will, the shock and indignation at the tearing up of the liberal international order or some other sanctimonious nonsense will be hilarious. Following the acts of war by France/Britain/US and the US occupying of the oil fields in northern Syria. It would be nice if some of this would be reported because I don't think the tax payers who fund this imperialistic crap would support it.

[bickster]

British based Putin critic Bill Browder arrested in Spain on Russian Interpol Arrest Warrant.

Interpol already refused this once on the grounds that the rest was broadly political, what changed and why is the West being yanked by Putin's string?

[Xann]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

British based Putin critic Bill Browder arrested in Spain on Russian Interpol Arrest Warrant.

He's been released.

Arkady Babchenko, war correspondent and Putin critic isn't so lucky. Shot in the back in Kiev last night.

That funny little chap in the Kremlin has some serious vanity issues.

[coda]

2 hours ago, Xann said:

Arkady Babchenko, war correspondent and Putin critic isn't so lucky. Shot in the back in Kiev last night.

He lives! He's turned up at a news conference. Some sort of sting operation.

[Xann]

Too weird...

Quote

 

The head of Ukraine's security services, Vasyl Hrytsak, told reporters the "murder" had been staged to expose Russian agents.

"According to information received by the Ukrainian security service, the killing of Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko was ordered by the Russian security services themselves," Mr Hrytsak said.

Mr Babchenko thanked the Russian security services for saving his life. It was not immediately clear exactly how the fake murder was staged.

The Russian foreign ministry said in a statement it was happy that Mr Babchenko was alive. Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the staged murder was done for "propagandistic effect", Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

The journalist was reportedly found by his wife bleeding at the entrance to his block of flats, shot several times in the back, and died in an ambulance.

He apparently did not tell his wife that the murder had been staged. "Special apologies to my wife," he said at the press conference.

Police said that they had made one arrest in connection with the extraordinary operation.

 

BBC

[coda]

If you listen carefully you can hear Craig Murray feverishly updating his blog.

[StefanAVFC]

Quote

The journalist was reportedly found by his wife bleeding at the entrance to his block of flats, shot several times in the back, and died in an ambulance.

He apparently did not tell his wife that the murder had been staged. "Special apologies to my wife," he said at the press conference

This bit is fantastic  

[chrisp65]

Now, if I was a freelance trouble maker, today would be a great day to off Mr Babchenko.

 

[villakram]

Propaganda.

[Chindie]

Porton Down have been at it again, chucking novichok over their shoulder for good luck all over Wiltshire.