Genie Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, OutByEaster? said: When we talk about aid to Ukraine - is this in the form of 'gifts' or loans? IOU’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 24 Moderator Share Posted January 24 It was something called a Lend-Lease Apparently - although that was terminated in October last year so who knows what's happening now. https://thegeopolitics.com/myths-over-ukraine-military-aid-how-the-lend-lease-works/ Quote The Lend-Lease is also required to be paid back, either through monetary means or the use of American contractors to help reconstruct a country, stimulating the loans back into the U.S. economy. For example, it took Britain and Russia several decades to pay back their (WWII) lease. Both repaid in full in 2006. So basically a loan, but they can pay it back by letting US corporations profit from the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. Good luck with that, this ain't the early 1900s, I know I'd rather chop my arm off than go and fight in a war. I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. It feels like that, but i think for me, I'm just lucky I've grown up in peaceful times. I'm 45 this year. There has always been war and fighting throughout history, just very little in my times. But yeah, I can't sign up. Dodgy arse innit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 24 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. Good luck with that, this ain't the early 1900s, I know I'd rather chop my arm off than go and fight in a war. I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. Not to mention that NATO has a significantly larger army than Russia. Tons more equipment and far, far better equipment. And that significantly larger NATO army is much much better trained that the remaining cannon fodder Russia currently has. I don't see any way conscription would be needed. Now if China was to be involved, that's a different matter. This rhetoric is to force the Governments hand I think as they've been squeezing the armed forces for years and they see if as a way to scare them into better funding - which is needed in these times. We've got gaping holes in our defence all over the place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 24 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Xela said: It feels like that, but i think for me, I'm just lucky I've grown up in peaceful times. I'm 45 this year. There has always been war and fighting throughout history, just very little in my times. But yeah, I can't sign up. Dodgy arse innit? Gulf War 1 and 2, Iran Iraq, Afghanistan, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo. It's been fairly quiet with Russia since the Cold war but the last 30 years have been as violent as ever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 12 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. Good luck with that, this ain't the early 1900s, I know I'd rather chop my arm off than go and fight in a war. I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. If it wasn’t for brexit we could just **** off to Spain and live/work there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 hours ago, sidcow said: Yeah, it's totally normal to transport prisoners of war in an expensive, valuable aircraft isn't it? You wouldn't just bundle them into an old truck or make them walk. They were being brought up to the front for a planned prisoner exchange. Ukraine says Russia did not give them prior warning that the plane should not have been a military target. Needless to say the planned exchange didn’t go ahead… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Gulf War 1 and 2, Iran Iraq, Afghanistan, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo. It's been fairly quiet with Russia since the Cold war but the last 30 years have been as violent as ever. The current age is one of the most peaceful in history if considered in terms of how likely a human is to die a violent death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 As long as it takes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. Good luck with that, this ain't the early 1900s, I know I'd rather chop my arm off than go and fight in a war. I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. You need some context to understand this. Now is the time of year when government departments agree their funding for the next tax year. The military/MOD is outlining what would happen if there was a major conflict. They could conscript the general public OR they could expand. The British Army is presently around 75,000 strong and we spend 2% of GDP. The aim is to increase spending to 3% and increase the size of our forces. That will PREVENT conscription in the future and is therefore more palatable to the general public. We can't just blame the Tories on this one. Labour decided that we needed 2 aircraft carriers. Some would say that decision was more about protecting jobs in the ship building industry than our defense requirements. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: When we talk about aid to Ukraine - is this in the form of 'gifts' or loans? Isn't there $400 billion of Russian foreign cash reserves embargoed? Just take that as a start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Conscription would never, ever, ever work in the UK again, maybe only if the UK was invaded it would. But all you'd see is 90% of non British-born immigrants instantly leave, and the remaining British citizens get massacred, only for another wave of immigration for demographic replacement, IE replace all the people killed. That's assuming the UK would win of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 24 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Conscription would never, ever, ever work in the UK again, maybe only if the UK was invaded it would. But all you'd see is 90% of non British-born immigrants instantly leave, and the remaining British citizens get massacred, only for another wave of immigration for demographic replacement, IE replace all the people killed. That's assuming the UK would win of course. The piss taking by the government during lockdowns means it’s almost impossible the masses will do what they’re told any time soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. Good luck with that, this ain't the early 1900s, I know I'd rather chop my arm off than go and fight in a war. I honestly can't believe the state of everything at the moment. The world really is going to shit. I'm amused by the news that they think the younger generations are willing to be conscripted by a government and country that's been **** them over and breaking the social contract for most of their lives. If I couldn't get out in time, I'll take prison thanks. I'm not dying for this shithole. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I'm amused by the news that they think the younger generations are willing to be conscripted by a government and country that's been **** them over and breaking the social contract for most of their lives. If I couldn't get out in time, I'll take prison thanks. I'm not dying for this shithole. I’d be out of here in a flash, same as you. I’m not against fighting for my country at all, but not this bunch of words removed. How ironic would it be British people fleeing the country in small boats to France Edited January 24 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Russia has produced a list of the 65 Ukrainian POW allegedly killed in the plane crash. But with typical Russian incompetence it includes 18 POW who had already been exchanged. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 9 hours ago, Davkaus said: I'm amused by the news that they think the younger generations are willing to be conscripted by a government and country that's been **** them over and breaking the social contract for most of their lives. If I couldn't get out in time, I'll take prison thanks. I'm not dying for this shithole. Definitely agree with this. It’s just not going to work anymore. If I could get to Canada, NZ or Australia I would go on a heartbeat. There’s just nothing to like about this country anymore that would compel me to fight for it. It’s been sold off by corrupt words removed who would no doubt find some way to exempt themselves and all their mates. We’re barely even a democracy anymore tbh just capitalists on steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) It’s impossible to discuss conscription in the current climate because it’s impossible to envision an actual scenario where it’d be necessary to start conscripting people. The UK is a long way from any dangerous opponents and we have nuclear weapons to discourage anyone threatening the UK itself. We don’t have an aggressive expansionist neighbour like Ukraine does. Of course the country wouldn’t support conscription at present. But I’d fight for this country if say China and India formed an alliance and went rampaging across Europe, treating occupied people the way the Japanese did in WW2. I imagine lots of people would be willing to fight if the lives of their friends or loved ones were actually at stake. But there’s a million reasons why that’s not going to happen, isn’t there? And I don’t think anyone has suggested conscription would happen in the current climate. Edited January 25 by Panto_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 There will be no conscription. Russia's military model is based upon a moderate sized army, large reserve forces and then conscription. Its been shown to be ineffective. America's military model is based upon a massive army, large reserve and no conscription. Its been shown to be effective in warfare but ineffective in long term occupation. UK's military model is based upon a tiny army, small reserve and no conscription. Its been shown to be effective in warfare because we've fought weak opponents, had the US with us and have the luxury of living on an island that is surrounded by well armed allies. Nothing has changed with Russia's present hostile stance. The UK is incredibly well defended. But if the US pulled out of NATO the onus would be on all European countries to up their game and spend on their military. We (the UK) are in a very different position to Poland, Germany, Romania, Latvia, Estonia etc. Our castle has a great moat and is patrolled by a disproportionately powerful navy. They don't even have a moat. The present talk of conscription is a political tool to justify increased defence spending. Increased defence spending in the UK is a political tool to compel some of our European NATO colleagues to do the same. Increased spending in European NATO is a deterent to Russia and a political tool to hopefully ensure the USA remains in NATO. Worry about conscription when France falls. Until then - enjoy the security of our castle, surrounded by allies and massive moat that is protected by the most powerful military alliance in history. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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