sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Our castle has a great moat and is patrolled by a disproportionately powerful navy. They don't even have a moat. Have you seen the state of our Navy? We've a tiny fleet compared to 20 years ago and half the fleet is out of commission, which is a good job as we only have only just have enough sailor to put to sea the small number of ships available. At start of the Ukraine conflict we only had one single seaworthy destroyer. The UK also has woeful Ballistic Missile defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 15 hours ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I see the scaremongering over us getting into a fully fledge war v Russia has ramped up in the media the last few days. Talk today of conscript if needed. They need a means to justify the next £xBillion pounds they will be sending to Ukraine. Generally speaking, it's my feeling many people are becoming apathetic to this "never ending" war. Trump may win the USA election and will pull funding, therefore it will be us, Germany, France etc who will foot the ongoing bill. It's all preparation. Send all your money to Ukraine, or go to war. It's your choice boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, sidcow said: Have you seen the state of our Navy? We've a tiny fleet compared to 20 years ago and half the fleet is out of commission, which is a good job as we only have only just have enough sailor to put to sea the small number of ships available. At start of the Ukraine conflict we only had one single seaworthy destroyer. The UK also has woeful Ballistic Missile defence. I partially agree. But we are a tiny country with 2 aircraft carriers, stealth fighters, 4 nuclear armed submarines and military bases in the northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere and on the equator. Our navy needs improvement but at the moment it's more than capable of defending the UK in our geographic location, with the allies we have and the limited ability of our enemies to reach our shorelines. Do we need carriers to defend the UK mainland? No. Would any of our enemies get a significant military force within 100 miles of us? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 11 minutes ago, pas5898 said: They need a means to justify the next £xBillion pounds they will be sending to Ukraine. Generally speaking, it's my feeling many people are becoming apathetic to this "never ending" war. Trump may win the USA election and will pull funding, therefore it will be us, Germany, France etc who will foot the ongoing bill. It's all preparation. Send all your money to Ukraine, or go to war. It's your choice boys. Most of the materiel sent though is long paid for... those 15 challengers we sent have been knocking around in storage for 30 years doing sod all. The USA have two options as well, pay a big bill to decommission missiles and rockets that are at the end of their 20-25 year shelf life, or just ship them to Ukraine and let them do what they were designed to ie. drop on Russian's heads. Literally none of this stuff is being newly made and shipped specifically for Ukraine's use at great expense like Lend-Lease in WW2, it's literally the military version of spare old tat lying around. So when they say "we sent £100 million of military equipment to Ukraine", yeah that was manufactured in the early 90's under Bush Sr. and Major and we've never used Edited January 25 by VillaJ100 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 13 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: As long as it takes Nexta is a shit source though, and there's an oxymoron in the statement. The US has run out of money to help Ukraine: Washington cannot supply Kyiv with missiles and ammunition at the same level as a year ago So is it no money or just less money? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Russia has produced a list of the 65 Ukrainian POW allegedly killed in the plane crash. But with typical Russian incompetence it includes 18 POW who had already been exchanged. Yeah, and the plane came from Iran and was heading away from Ukraine. Russia sure does know how to make propaganda. The plane was likely filled with Iranian drones and ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: It’s impossible to discuss conscription in the current climate because it’s impossible to envision an actual scenario where it’d be necessary to start conscripting people. The UK is a long way from any dangerous opponents and we have nuclear weapons to discourage anyone threatening the UK itself. We don’t have an aggressive expansionist neighbour like Ukraine does. Of course the country wouldn’t support conscription at present. But I’d fight for this country if say China and India formed an alliance and went rampaging across Europe, treating occupied people the way the Japanese did in WW2. I imagine lots of people would be willing to fight if the lives of their friends or loved ones were actually at stake. But there’s a million reasons why that’s not going to happen, isn’t there? And I don’t think anyone has suggested conscription would happen in the current climate. See, I don't know with the generation we live in if people would be willing to fight for their loved ones or friends. People have become very self obsessed and selfish. Not to mention all the gender stuff and identifying as anything except for what you biologically are. Can you imagine ending up in the army and you've got a influencer, someone who identifies as a mushroom and a climate activist in your squad? You'd probably turn the gun on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 31 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Nexta is a shit source though, and there's an oxymoron in the statement. The US has run out of money to help Ukraine: Washington cannot supply Kyiv with missiles and ammunition at the same level as a year ago So is it no money or just less money? 2 things the USA will never run out of, money and weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 25 Moderator Share Posted January 25 Can we keep this discussion to Ukraine / Russia please. If people want to start talking about UK military capability and conscription etc then you can start a new topic for that, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, pas5898 said: They need a means to justify the next £xBillion pounds they will be sending to Ukraine. Generally speaking, it's my feeling many people are becoming apathetic to this "never ending" war. Trump may win the USA election and will pull funding, therefore it will be us, Germany, France etc who will foot the ongoing bill. It's all preparation. Send all your money to Ukraine, or go to war. It's your choice boys. Trump says he’ll stop the war if he gets in power so there won’t be a need for him to approve funds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 59 minutes ago, Genie said: Trump says he’ll stop the war if he gets in power so there won’t be a need for him to approve funds Maybe he thinks he can buy Ukraine like when he tried to buy Greenland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Russia has produced a list of the 65 Ukrainian POW allegedly killed in the plane crash. But with typical Russian incompetence it includes 18 POW who had already been exchanged. Are we sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, villa89 said: Maybe he thinks he can buy Ukraine like when he tried to buy Greenland. I suspect he’ll pressure Ukraine to just give up the land and redraw the border, and then if he Zelensky refuses then it’s his fault the war is still going not Putin’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 10 minutes ago, Genie said: I suspect he’ll pressure Ukraine to just give up the land and redraw the border, and then if he Zelensky refuses then it’s his fault the war is still going not Putin’s. Much the same way he solved the Palestine question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 58 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Are we sure about that? "Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: Are we sure about that? The fog of war makes it difficult to be sure about anything, But I have found an instance with a named individual and very specific details. Quote Already-swapped soldier is on Russian propagandist's list of alleged captives involved in Il-76 crash https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/01/24/7438688/ Edited January 25 by Mandy Lifeboats Added details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: The fog of war makes it difficult to be sure about anything, But I have found an instance with a named individual and very specific details. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/01/24/7438688/ Yes, it seems the 18 names already being transferred is propaganda from Ukraine supporters. That one guy seems to have appeared on a previous transfer list but allegedly he didn’t make that transfer as planned and was due to be transferred in this batch instead. If he did get traded previously and is in fact still alive and in Ukraine presumably he could be tracked down and verified? It’s not clear what happened but there’s a lot of disinformation and the Ukrainian supporters are often just as full of shit as the Russian fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 33 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Yes, it seems the 18 names already being transferred is propaganda from Ukraine supporters. That one guy seems to have appeared on a previous transfer list but allegedly he didn’t make that transfer as planned and was due to be transferred in this batch instead. If he did get traded previously and is in fact still alive and in Ukraine presumably he could be tracked down and verified? It’s not clear what happened but there’s a lot of disinformation and the Ukrainian supporters are often just as full of shit as the Russian fans It's really irrelevant. If it was full of POW's it's a completely heinous by Russia. Dangling them out there in a juicy target to be shot at. Another disgraceful act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sidcow said: It's really irrelevant. If it was full of POW's it's a completely heinous by Russia. Dangling them out there in a juicy target to be shot at. Another disgraceful act. I’d just like to know what happened. There is a lot of disinformation that gets thrown out when something like this happens. Are 65 POWs now dead or not? If it was a POW transit that was shot down it could well have been a mistake on the Ukrainian side. A miss communication is entirely possible. Edited January 25 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 25 Moderator Share Posted January 25 33 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I’d just like to know what happened. There is a lot of disinformation that gets thrown out when something like this happens. Are 65 POWs now dead or not? If it was a POW transit that was shot down it could well have been a mistake on the Ukrainian side. A miss communication is entirely possible. I read that the flight originated in Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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