Mandy Lifeboats Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 (edited) To be fair to him>> He knows nothing. He can’t say anything else. If he did he would fall out of a window. I have no doubt that the UK was involved in some way with the attack on the Black Sea Fleet. Even if it was only training Ukrainians. I have no doubt that some ex-SBS and ex-SAS have joined Ukraine' Foreign Legion. Edited November 4, 2022 by Mandy Lifeboats Added details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 1 hour ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Ever since that pipeline was detonated I’ve been scratching my head as to why the Russians would destroy it. They were still technically generating revenue from it and presumably at the end of the war the conversations would immediately start to reopen it fully. I’m not one of these conspiracy theorist types as my posting record on here shows but when I’ve weighed it up (albeit from a very uneducated pov) it looks like the ones that benefit the most are those NATO countries who wanted to cut off that potential source of revenue for the Russians (by stopping the Germans do their dirty deal for Russian gas) and making sure that at the end of the war the Russians would continue to feel the economic effects for some time to come. Maybe I’ve got it wrong and happy to be convinced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: To be fair to him>> He knows nothing. He can’t say anything else. If he did he would fall out of a window. I have no doubt that the UK was involved in some way with the attack on the Black Sea Fleet. Even if it was only training Ukrainians. I have no doubt that some ex-SBS and ex-SAS have joined Ukraine' Foreign Legion. Who do you think did the pipelines? Biden pretty much said he’d end it Edited November 4, 2022 by BleedClaretAndBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 19 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Who do you think did the pipelines? Biden pretty much said he’d end it Biden is talking about the other pipeline isn’t he (the one which closed due to “maintenance” issues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2022 21 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: They were still technically generating revenue from it No they weren't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Genie said: Biden is talking about the other pipeline isn’t he (the one which closed due to “maintenance” issues). Nah but the tweet from the account (a self-labelled parody account) says otherwise. Edited November 4, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: No they weren't There was gas flowing through it. The Russians were still selling it and the Germans were still buying it, albeit in much smaller quantities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 4, 2022 Just now, desensitized43 said: There was gas flowing through it. The Russians were still selling it and the Germans were still buying it, albeit in much smaller quantities. No, the destroyed pipe was the new one which hadn't been commissioned yet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 1 minute ago, sidcow said: No, the destroyed pipe was the new one which hadn't been commissioned yet. That's not what I've read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_gas_leaks Quote 2022 Nord Stream leaks Pipe Location Comment Nord Stream 2 pipe A exclusive economic zone of Denmark discovered by a Danish F-16 interceptor response unit to the southeast of Dueodde, Bornholm Nord Stream 2 pipe A exclusive economic zone of Sweden discovered on that pipeline by Swedish authorities Nord Stream 1 pipe A exclusive economic zone of Sweden discovered on that pipeline by Swedish authorities Nord Stream 1 pipe B exclusive economic zone of Denmark discovered on that pipeline by Swedish authorities They were both damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: There was gas flowing through it. The Russians were still selling it and the Germans were still buying it, albeit in much smaller quantities. Nordstream 2 wasn't online, its also a misconception that its just one pipe, it isn't. Pipe B of Nordstream 2 is still potentially operable, it was pipe A that was attacked 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: That's not what I've read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_gas_leaks They were both damaged. Click the link to the actual Nord Stream 2 page. It's clear it was never certified for use before the explosion. Your point still stands though. They COULD have eventually started using it in future although I think it would be political suicide now for any European Country to start buying gas from Russia again. That boat has sailed. The future is uncoupling the price of electricity from gas and installing heat pumps and grid scale battery storage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2022 None of the pipes were in use. Nordstream 2 was never opened and Nordstream 1 was shut down by the Russians because, they claimed, a compressor had failed and couldn’t be fixed because of sanctions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BleedClaretAndBlue Posted November 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2022 Nordstream 2 was essentially just a pipedream 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: Ever since that pipeline was detonated I’ve been scratching my head as to why the Russians would destroy it. They were still technically generating revenue from it and presumably at the end of the war the conversations would immediately start to reopen it fully. I’m not one of these conspiracy theorist types as my posting record on here shows but when I’ve weighed it up (albeit from a very uneducated pov) it looks like the ones that benefit the most are those NATO countries who wanted to cut off that potential source of revenue for the Russians (by stopping the Germans do their dirty deal for Russian gas) and making sure that at the end of the war the Russians would continue to feel the economic effects for some time to come. Maybe I’ve got it wrong and happy to be convinced. I agree that it still makes no sense for Russia to have done that - what purpose has it served? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 This was the guy the Ukrainian secret service tried to blow up wasnt it but his daughter was the unfortunate one instead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jareth said: I agree that it still makes no sense for Russia to have done that - what purpose has it served? It was a power play by Russia. Their whole plan revolved around Europe being dependant on Russian gas. That's why they were able to annex Crimea and nobody did anything, because Europe and especially Germany needed Russian gas. So as soon as they invaded Ukraine they made threat about stopping gas and used it as a weapon to stop Europe entering the war on Ukraine's side. Obviously that has failed spectacularly. The destruction of a section of Nordstream pipe (that wasn't yet operable) was just another attempt at a threat, keep helping Ukraine and you won't get our gas through this fancy new pipeline. Again it was idiotic and has failed. People need to stop thinking Russia or their dictator Putin are intelligent, they aren't. They are deluded. They think Russia is a superpower when in reality it's a second world country riddled with poverty and corruption. Edited November 4, 2022 by villa89 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, villa89 said: It was a power play by Russia. Their whole plan revolved around Europe being dependant on Russian gas. That's why they were able to annex Crimea and nobody did anything, because Europe and especially Germany needed Russian gas. So as soon as they invaded Ukraine they made threat about stopping gas and used it as a weapon to stop Europe entering the war on Ukraine's side. Obviously that has failed spectacularly. The destruction of a section of Nordstream pipe (that wasn't yet operable) was just another attempt at a threat, keep helping Ukraine and you won't get our gas through this fancy new pipeline. Again it was idiotic and has failed. People need to stop thinking Russia or their dictator Putin are intelligent, they aren't. They are deluded. They think Russia is a superpower when in reality it's a second world country riddled with poverty and corruption. IMHO taking that pipe out took away their leverage over future gas supplies, left them with just the one pipe to which the same could happen again - the threat works both ways in this scenario. I’d actually applaud the move if it was us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 24 minutes ago, Jareth said: I agree that it still makes no sense for Russia to have done that - what purpose has it served? As with most of the things Putin has done in this war it was probably an idea he had to scare Europe on the day that the Norway\Poland pipeline opened. As with all the other idiocy this one also fell flat on its arse. I think even Putin realised that the pipes weren't going to be used again in his lifetime so he might as well try to gain some soft-power capital from destroying it. Europe's gas storage facilities are operating at a near full capacity, so there was never going to be anyone in EU buying Russian gas anyway. The pipes are essentially lame ducks due to other factors than them being blown up. Give it a few years and the gas fields in the Med will be opened and Russia literally has no cards left to play except for nuclear, which would mean the end of their own pitiful extremist existence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2022 Xi's strongest statement to date about Russia / Ukraine. Quote TAIPEI — Chinese leader Xi Jinping made his most direct criticism yet of Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine on Friday, warning the Russian president not to resort to nuclear weapons and calling on visiting German Chancellor Olaf Scholz to push for peace talks. Xi’s warning comes just over a month after Putin threatened Ukraine with a nuclear attack, a sign of how far Ukrainian forces had rocked the Kremlin with their advances against invaders in the East. The international community, said Xi, should “jointly oppose the use of, or threats to use, nuclear weapons,” according to a statement carried by Xinhua, China’s state news agency. The world should also “advocate that nuclear weapons cannot be used, a nuclear war cannot be waged, in order to prevent a nuclear crisis” in Europe or Asia, Xi added. [...] Politico Well most of the world already had that position but it's good to see that Xi has now stated this also. Hopefully, it will put an end to the nuclear threat from Russia 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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