Truck terror attack in Sweden

[Xela]

Wasn't the silent jihad warning a quote from Gadaffi?

Edited April 8, 2017 by Xela

[tomaspg]

23 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'd say the same kind of thing that I normally say about 'problems': that the reasons behind them are likely to be much more complicated and multifarious than people like to acknowledge or want to hear.

We don't want to hear that problems are difficult to solve or to address, much more we don't want to hear that they may be difficult to understand. We want solutions. We want politicians and statespeople and the 'great and the good' to stand up and tell us that they'll stop x,y and z from ever happening again and that they'll make everything fine in the future (whether that's keeping the streets safe or bringing back jobs or eradicating cancer).

To a certain extent we want to be told we 'live in dangerous times' because it allows for the perception that there have been and will be times that are not dangerous at all rather than times that may have been and may be, in future, differently dangerous.

As far as 'this religion' goes, the more I read about Islam, its various internal groupings and internecine struggles, the wide variety of doctrines, of scholarly disputes, of practices and the spectrum that these cover suggests to me that anyone wanting to place it as a single homogenous entity at the extreme whereby it necessarily begets only the kind of violent and murderous action that we see on newsreels either has a specific agenda or is making an error.

Just like any other religion? That would be one for the religion thread and for a much less sunny day - but the short answer would be that I'm no fan of religion in general so I find it difficult to discriminate in either a positive or a negative way between one lot or another simply because of the creed they follow or the actions of a constituent part of a particular religion.

top post. 

 

In my opinion it has never been about religion even if it has played a central part. its peoples priorities that are twisted, as you say people are multifarious, a person is not made from a single concept. At an early age I considered my self a christian, but i priorities my own desires over the ones preached by the book, i had premarital sex, i stole and did a lot of other stuff that wasn't seen as "right" according to the church because even if christianity ment something to me at that point so did a lot of other things. Just like my old friend from uni would offer me alcohol at his house even though he was a muslim I prioritzed the girl over the book (and the snickers i stole was **** delicious). The people who are at fault are the ones who prioritize hate and violence over love and compassion, regardless of whatever other personal beliefs they might have. 

 

[Brumerican]

3 hours ago, Xela said:

Come on mate, its the religion of peace don't you know. 

 

Killing infidels is a huge theme in their holy book . ( It doesn't say that it only applies to nutters either )

[Davkaus]

All of the abrahamic religions are brutal and barbaric. Muslims are currently just the only ones that have a group of nutters following the bad bits. Any Christians that are good people are good despite the teachings of the Bible rather than because of it.

[Keyblade]

Ah yes, this is when everyone becomes an Islamic scholar.

This is why some random Uzbek construction worker and people like him will continue to win over us. 

[Rugeley Villa]

16 minutes ago, Xela said:

Wasn't the silent jihad warning a quote from Gadaffi?

Yes it was and that's what it's called although a non Muslim sounds silly by saying it.

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Ah yes, this is when everyone becomes an Islamic scholar.

This is why some random Uzbek construction worker and people like him will continue to win over us. 

This is quite a confusing post. I'm not sure that people trying to interpret the Quran has any affect on the actions of people that are going to commit atrocities, and I'm not sure I'd say that terrorists have even been able to 'win over us'.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

This is quite a confusing post. I'm not sure that people trying to interpret the Quran has any affect on the actions of people that are going to commit atrocities, and I'm not sure I'd say that terrorists have even been able to 'win over us'.

They win because it feeds into the snowball effect of hysteria and fearmongering. The snowball gets incrementally bigger with each attack, which is their goal.

That's why I think saying or implying things like "The bad ones are killing people and the good ones are silently cheering them on/doing silent jihad" or "It says in their book to kill infidels so duh" is so irresponsible in this current climate.

[Brumerican]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Ah yes, this is when everyone becomes an Islamic scholar.

This is why some random Uzbek construction worker and people like him will continue to win over us. 

Why would anyone need to be a scholar to understand the commands of the creator ? The very fact that those words require scholarly interpretation should be a huge red flag .

[Brumerican]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

 "It says in their book to kill infidels so duh" is so irresponsible in this current climate.

Well it does . Many, many times . Sweeping it under the carpet every times it happens is even more irresponsible.

[Keyblade]

10 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

Why would anyone need to be a scholar to understand the commands of the creator ? The very fact that those words require scholarly interpretation should be a huge red flag .

You don't need to be a scholar, that was exaggeration for effect. But you can't simply read the book from cover to cover without any historical or textual context and expect to understand it. The majority of Muslims are taught these nuances from a young age, which is why only a very minuscule minority of them have come to the same conclusion as you.

[Brumerican]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You don't need to be a scholar, that was exaggeration for effect. But you can't simply read the book from cover to cover without any historical or textual context and expect to understand it. The majority of Muslims are taught these nuances from a young age, which is why only a very minuscule minority of them have come to the same conclusion as you.

Yes , it's called indoctrination . 

It's not a good thing IMO. 

[Keyblade]

Just now, Brumerican said:

Yes , it's called indoctrination . 

It's not a good thing IMO. 

Yes, but that is a separate conversation. 

My point was that you can't just point to certain passages and be like 'yup, that's why'. While that may be true for the attackers (even then, probably not), it erroneously and dangerously incriminates the rest of the followers of that book who don't interpret it that way.

[Brumerican]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Yes, but that is a separate conversation. 

My point was that you can't just point to certain passages and be like 'yup, that's why'. While that may be true for the attackers (even then, probably not), it erroneously and dangerously incriminates the rest of the followers of that book who don't interpret it that way.

The benign majority have their own fair share of crimes. They're just a little less terroristy.

[Keyblade]

7 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

The benign majority have their own fair share of crimes. They're just a little less terroristy.

Yikes

[Brumerican]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Yikes

I think in general, all religions are inherently bad for humanity . Even the "benign" stuff.  

I'd say "yikes" if you believed differently.  And therein lies the problem .

[limpid]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

All of the abrahamic religions are brutal and barbaric. Muslims are currently just the only ones that have a group of nutters following the bad bits.

Apart from the Christian militias in the Central African Republic, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, the KKK and other white supremacists. And Iraq was invaded by Bush in God's name.

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Any Christians that are good people are good despite the teachings of the Bible rather than because of it.

Agreed. It's almost like they are humanists  

[sne]

30 minutes ago, limpid said:

Apart from the Christian militias in the Central African Republic, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, the KKK and other white supremacists. And Iraq was invaded by Bush in God's name.

Agreed. It's almost like they are humanists  

Those Christian militias in Africa are in many cases fueled and funded (directly or indirectly) by Christian groups and missionaries from the US.

There isn't a school in Uganda that isn't funded by a foreign religious group. Be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish. It's good that people are getting and education, but it comes with a price. 

Uganda has the hardest anti-gay laws in the world, and this is all down to lobbying and influence from US-based Christian groups.

Just like the Saudis are funding extremist Imams in Europe. 

[osmark86]

11 minutes ago, sne said:

Those Christian militias in Africa are in many cases fueled and funded (directly or indirectly) by Christian groups and missionaries from the US.

There isn't a school in Uganda that isn't funded by a foreign religious group. Be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish. It's good that people are getting and education, but it comes with a price. 

Uganda has the hardest anti-gay laws in the world, and this is all down to lobbying and influence from US-based Christian groups.

Just like the Saudis are funding extremist Imams in Europe. 

Oh but I liked it more when one side was evil and the other good. All these intricaces are mindnumbing, please desist sir.

[Dr_Pangloss]

5 hours ago, Xela said:

Come on mate, its the religion of peace don't you know. 

 

Indeed, sections of the Qu'ran and the Hadiths are a long way from peaceful. The Pew polls on attitudes among Muslims are fairly scary. Unfortunately having these conversations seem to be a no go area in the present climate.