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Truck terror attack in Sweden


TrentVilla

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53 minutes ago, sne said:

Uganda has the hardest anti-gay laws in the world

Well homosexuality doesn't carry the death penalty there so I'm not sure how it can have.

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10 minutes ago, will87 said:

Well homosexuality doesn't carry the death penalty there so I'm not sure how it can have.

True, it's only life in prison, so there are probably even worse places even thou they pride themselves in being worst.

This is a nice educational video on how they view the topic.

 

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32 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Indeed, sections of the Qu'ran and the Hadiths are a long way from peaceful. The Pew polls on attitudes among Muslims are fairly scary. Unfortunately having these conversations seem to be a no go area in the present climate. 

It's called islamophobia.

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6 hours ago, Xela said:

Some horrific photos on Twitter of the aftermath of the attack yesterday :(

What is the answer? Is there one? 

If you look at the modern Middle East from 1917-2017, it's been a history of European and American meddling and aggression in almost every country there. We are currently occupying and bombing the countries on either side of Iran (and then we wonder why they might want a nuclear defense.) We are bombing Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, we bombed Libya, we have supported murderous tyrants and overthrown democratically elected leaders. We arm the Zionist regime to the teeth and turn a blind eye to the abject destruction of the Palestinian people. We pay lip service to human rights, but what we've always wanted is oil and safe access to it. We've also got Somalia in a choke hold and don't seem to have any interest in helping them.

If I was a young Muslim, even with a university education, it would be hard not to think the West is engaging in a pretty ferocious and comprehensive military campaign against Islam itself. We've poked this hornets nest for 100 years, and the result is them fighting back, as cowardly as it is to drive a truck into innocent pedestrians. I despise these criminals, and I do agree that Europe has been too lenient with it's immigration laws. Sweden has had very little to do with any policies pertaining to geopolitics of The Middle East, so attacks like this in a country like that, as well as their rioting and crime problems really lay bare the folly of liberal immigration practices given the times we live in.

Is there an answer? I'd start with getting off oil and getting out of their countries.

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1 hour ago, will87 said:

Well homosexuality doesn't carry the death penalty there so I'm not sure how it can have.

Uganda had a "Kill the Gays" bill passed in 2014, which was unsurprisingly masterminded by an American pastor.

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53 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

It's called islamophobia.

Islamophobia is insinuating Muslims are currently waging a 'silent jihad', deliberately giving birth to children in order to take over demographically.

Don't hide behind the anti-PC facade.

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I'm sure if we can just sell some more missiles to the Saudi royal family this will all be resolved.

We're all agreed our Saudi client buying all our lovely weapons is the good guy, yeah?

Need partners like that in these uncertain times of Brexit and terror. Need good clients buying good bombs. If Saudi stopped buying our weaponry we wouldn't have the money for our humanitarian work in Yemen.

 

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4 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Ah yes, this is when everyone becomes an Islamic scholar.

This is why some random Uzbek construction worker and people like him will continue to win over us.

Yeah. though I hope the random Uzbeki doesn't win.

It's kind of baffling to me how the whole narrative seems to go. I was watching the cricket the other day and Moeen Ali was commenting as a studio expert. He's a fine, decent, upstanding man and a Muslim. And I thought he is pretty much a representative and an example of how most muslims I meet or am likely to meet (apart from being a bloody good cricketer). I'd be amazed if anyone would have a bad word to say about him, or the way he follows his religion.
Somehow, millions, even billions of Christians, Muslims and other's manage to behave humanely, civilly and peacefully without being at all affected or influenced by the more violent passages of scriptures written over a thousand years ago in completely different times.So even if folk these days were to delve into holy books and find whatever violence and intolerance and interpret it however, that violence or intolerant writing is kind of irrelevant to how 99% of the world actually lives and behaves.

Where there is a problem is with the tiny minority who do take that stuff to actual physical action, and there's also a problem where people draw the line of intolerance and how they believe people behaving against their own religious (or atheist)"standards" should be treated. Once it gets to, or past insulting them, then that's bad and insulting muslims, just because they're muslims is no different to insulting infidels for being non-believers. And of course violence is worse still.

 

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56 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I'm sure if we can just sell some more missiles to the Saudi royal family this will all be resolved.

We're all agreed our Saudi client buying all our lovely weapons is the good guy, yeah?

Need partners like that in these uncertain times of Brexit and terror. Need good clients buying good bombs. If Saudi stopped buying our weaponry we wouldn't have the money for our humanitarian work in Yemen.

It's an easy thing to say or write. Trouble is, the opposite (for example)

Quote

I'm sure if we refuse to sell some more missiles to the Saudi royal family this will all be resolved.

We're all agreed Saudis are the bad guys, yeah?

We don't need partners like that in these uncertain times of Trump, Putin and Assad and Rouhani. We don't need to trade abroad. If Saudi stopped buying our weaponry  no one else would sell them any.

is just as over simplistic. It's an unfortunate reality that there are other nations that do and would love to sell missiles to the Saudi, as well as or instead of the UK.

The Saudi's aren't doing what they're doing because the UK sells them Arms and they wouldn't stop doing it if we stopped selling them arms. Which is a complicated shame and tragedy.

 

 

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2 hours ago, maqroll said:

Is there an answer? I'd start with getting off oil and getting out of their countries.

Agree.

We need stop meddling over there. 

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50 minutes ago, blandy said:

It's an easy thing to say or write. Trouble is, the opposite (for example)

is just as over simplistic. It's an unfortunate reality that there are other nations that do and would love to sell missiles to the Saudi, as well as or instead of the UK.

The Saudi's aren't doing what they're doing because the UK sells them Arms and they wouldn't stop doing it if we stopped selling them arms. Which is a complicated shame and tragedy.

It is easy to write. It's also true that if we don't sell the beheaders their cluster bombs, somebody else will.

But that's not really a great reason to sell a gun to a murderer, is it? To make sure the profit comes to us?

Yet at the same time, we're letting the Russians get all the sales bonuses for Syria. I'm sure there's some munitions firm somewhere in the UK would welcome the chance to increase exports with some bombs for bloody Assad as well as those for bloody King Salman. 

 

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11 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

It is easy to write. It's also true that if we don't sell the beheaders their cluster bombs, somebody else will.

But that's not really a great reason to sell a gun to a murderer, is it? To make sure the profit comes to us?

Yet at the same time, we're letting the Russians get all the sales bonuses for Syria. I'm sure there's some munitions firm somewhere in the UK would welcome the chance to increase exports with some bombs for bloody Assad as well as those for bloody King Salman.

The UK arms deal with Saudi was set up in the 80s and AFAIK comes under contract review every 5 years. I don't believe it's as simple as the Saudis deciding they want some woosh-bangs to set off on Yemen and shopping round for some. I might be wrong, but I think that's the way the contract, which is between the UK govt and the Saudi govt is done.

No doubt the UK govt could cancel it. The implications would be huge, but what it wouldn't do is save a single life.

There's a real difference between maintaining a long standing contract with someone and looking for a new market to sell some bombs to Assad.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's likely to involve either diplomacy or a world wide agreement on restricting arms sales.  Unilaterally cancelling the UK Saudi deal will change nothing. 

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5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

BBC reporting he was given 4 weeks to leave Sweden in December and he went missing after that

Refused residency in June, told to leave in December and had extremist sympathies, yet was still allowed to roam free? Well done Swedish government. 

BBC reporting they have the highest amount of ISIS fighters per capita in Europe as well. 

 

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1 minute ago, Xela said:

Refused residency in June, told to leave in December and had extremist sympathies, yet was still allowed to roam free? Well done Swedish government. 

BBC reporting they have the highest amount of ISIS fighters per capita in Europe as well. 

 

I do believe that is true and its not that surprising really. I have heard stories that places in the bigger cities have recruitment drives for ISIS :(

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2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I do believe that is true and its not that surprising really. I have heard stories that places in the bigger cities have recruitment drives for ISIS :(

Let the wolf into your house then don't be surprised when they attack your children. 

 

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