Steve Bruce

[Grasshopper]

   On 27/04/2017 at 19:01, sheepyvillian said: 

I respect your opinion TRO as frustrating as it may be .

I respect Tro too.

and that he has the right to have an opinion

It's his opinion which I can't get my head around

[Grasshopper]

11 hours ago, Godders said:

I think everyone agrees that we're far from being the finished article, but we're now on that journey with Bruce.  

see this is what I do not understand.

How can anyone possibly claim that?

11 hours ago, Godders said:

If we sack him now and get someone else in,  

This is the best bit  l

                               \/

11 hours ago, Godders said:

all the meetings that have happened between the football men identifying summer targets, the meetings with suits agreeing the money needed, the initial enquiries made to clubs, the meetings Bruce would have had with his coaches agreeing the summer training strategy, the chats Bruce and his coaches would have had with players both here and on loan, all of that would be wasted.  

How do you know this?

11 hours ago, Godders said:

Put simply, we'd be right back to square one. We'd be at a distinct disadvantage to most other clubs who would have been planning this summer for months.  

The disadvantage we will have over other clubs is by having a manager who is the wrong one for us

11 hours ago, Godders said:

Proper planning and preperation prevents piss poor performance. If it's clear that Bruce is not up to the task (to most, there is no clear evidence yet to suggest that he is not) the club will start planning for his departure. They may already have started on contingency planning in case we have to let him go early next season, but that takes time to make any transition as smooth as possible.  

So we should "smoothly" transition into playing dominant football resulting in gaining "smoothly" more poonts.

Heaven forbid if one could come in, shake things up and win all the way to promotion?

11 hours ago, Godders said:

Getting another manager in because of grass is greener reasoning puts us back so far as to put at risk our promotion next season imo, especially when there's no logical reason to suggest that

but where is the logical reason to suggest its a risk?

11 hours ago, Godders said:

Monk, or whoever, would be any more likely than Bruce to get us up. 

The point of my post was that the expectation is rightly, to get promoted next season. Bringing in a new manager undoes a lot of work that's gone on behind the scenes this season specifically aimed at achieving that goal. My opinion is that a new coach would be far more likely to not get the start that you, I and others want to see, and on that basis, there would be some pretty vocal people calling for his head.

and all this work behind the scenes you so fondly take about is going to transpire when?

[Grasshopper]

6 hours ago, villakram said:

What a huge surprise. The only way this man knows how to improve a team is by adding a quality player... PFM 101! 

He may turn us into Sunderland.

Where are they in the table?

Got a British up and at em manager?

It's ok, all we need is a few "quality players" to replace the "quality players" (from other clubs, playing much better football, and  performing better for them than us)

ffs

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

20 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

He may turn us into Sunderland.

Where are they in the table?

Got a British up and at em manager?

It's ok, all we need is a few "quality players" to replace the "quality players" (from other clubs, playing much better football, and  performing better for them than us)

ffs

Unfortunately we don't seem to even really have been "up at em" anymore. lol

 

 

[Godders]

33 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

see this is what I do not understand.

How can anyone possibly claim that?

Claim that we're not the finished article? Bruce himself has said it. Recently. Other than that, it's easy to determine:

Folks, straw poll - if you're happy that the Villa team we're seeing at the moment under Bruce is the "finished article", please mention myself and Grasshopper in a post by 3pm tomorrow saying "I think this team is the finished article".

42 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

How do you know this?

Well, Bruce has been quoted as saying he's already been enquiring as to the availability of Premiership players.

“I’m ringing around managers who I know in the Premier League ..." (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-outlines-potential-transfer-12827171)

So, he know's who he wants. He must have agreed these targets with the others at the club. He must have agreed a transfer budget to get these players. Otherwise, I doubt he'd be calling around managers he knows in the premier league.

52 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

The disadvantage we will have over other clubs is by having a manager who is the wrong one for us

Careful Grasshopper, you've pulled people up on posts in the past where they're trying to pass opinions off as facts. This is not a fact. This is your opinion.

53 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

So we should "smoothly" transition into playing dominant football resulting in gaining "smoothly" more poonts.

Heaven forbid if one could come in, shake things up and win all the way to promotion?

Disagree with the bit not in bold. I've said before I don't particularly care if we average 30% posession or 60% posession. As long as we win the games to get us promoted. That said, someone posted Hull's stats last season which suggested that actually, Bruce does know how to play dominant football (and given he was their manager last season, presumably does know how to get teams to play said football in the current climate).

Agree with the bit in bold, though I have a sneaking feeling that Bruce may be able to do this himself next season.

54 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

but where is the logical reason to suggest its a risk?

Here's two arguments:

1. There is no guarantee that any football manager can get us up next season. Any situation that is not guaranteed means there is a risk it won't happen. Therefore, there is a risk that whatever football manager is at the helm will not get us up next season.

2. Leeds finished 13th last season. Leeds are currently outside the playoffs under Garry Monk, even though he's had more games in charge than Steve Bruce. Therefore, we cannot conclude that Garry Monk would perform better at Aston Villa than Steve Bruce has, considering he would take us over in roughly the same spot that Leeds were when he came in.

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

and all this work behind the scenes you so fondly take about is going to transpire when?

The objective is to go up next season. That's over a year away. 

 

[Villan_of_oz]

2 hours ago, Godders said:

Claim that we're not the finished article? Bruce himself has said it. Recently. Other than that, it's easy to determine:

Folks, straw poll - if you're happy that the Villa team we're seeing at the moment under Bruce is the "finished article", please mention myself and Grasshopper in a post by 3pm tomorrow saying "I think this team is the finished article".

Well, Bruce has been quoted as saying he's already been enquiring as to the availability of Premiership players.

“I’m ringing around managers who I know in the Premier League ..." (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-outlines-potential-transfer-12827171)

So, he know's who he wants. He must have agreed these targets with the others at the club. He must have agreed a transfer budget to get these players. Otherwise, I doubt he'd be calling around managers he knows in the premier league.

Careful Grasshopper, you've pulled people up on posts in the past where they're trying to pass opinions off as facts. This is not a fact. This is your opinion.

Disagree with the bit not in bold. I've said before I don't particularly care if we average 30% posession or 60% posession. As long as we win the games to get us promoted. That said, someone posted Hull's stats last season which suggested that actually, Bruce does know how to play dominant football (and given he was their manager last season, presumably does know how to get teams to play said football in the current climate).

Agree with the bit in bold, though I have a sneaking feeling that Bruce may be able to do this himself next season.

Here's two arguments:

1. There is no guarantee that any football manager can get us up next season. Any situation that is not guaranteed means there is a risk it won't happen. Therefore, there is a risk that whatever football manager is at the helm will not get us up next season.

2. Leeds finished 13th last season. Leeds are currently outside the playoffs under Garry Monk, even though he's had more games in charge than Steve Bruce. Therefore, we cannot conclude that Garry Monk would perform better at Aston Villa than Steve Bruce has, considering he would take us over in roughly the same spot that Leeds were when he came in.

The objective is to go up next season. That's over a year away. 

 

Haha you just grasshoppered the grasshopper. 

[Grasshopper]

7 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Haha you just grasshoppered the grasshopper. 

indeed he has.

But it's not over till the fat kebab-eater is sacked.

@Godders

Great stuff, Healthy debate and respect to you.

I get your reasoning, but it's a bit like having a spoon to slice bread with. We know what we all want we just dont have the right guy to deliver it all.

I'm working over the weekend and travel back home on monday, That'll give me some time to collect some thoughts and go for some heavy Grasshopperism for mondays continuation of all that is Bruce.

P.S. please excuse the intermediate short posts surrounding the game v Blackburn

[DaveAV1]

Cheers from the GH camp. Howls of derision from the TRO camp. Don't shoot the messenger. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

[Harry]

Its good to see that if you don't look at this thread for a few days and come back you find precisely the same debate is going on involving basically the same posters. 

[Harry]

By the way that's not a dig at anyone, just funny. I think the word we are searching for is polarised.

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

By the way that's not a dig at anyone, just funny. I think the word we are searching for is polarised.

Guilty as charged!!

[Grasshopper]

me too

[Grasshopper]

Bruce is turning us into Sunderland

[DaveAV1]

I've had a whinge in the premature thread about this. Bruce hasn't selected a single academy player for the match day squad, not even on the bench. This is a dead rubber for us, surely an opportunity missed to have a look at future prospects. We're on the road to nowhere with this mentality. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by DaveAV1
Spell check correction.

[Grasshopper]

What's the difference between SAFC and AVFC?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SAFC would have sacked Bruce after the 0-2 v Toon

[thabucks]

Oh look a different 11 from last week which will probably result in the same turgid shite performance with 30odd % possession. 

He doesn't have a clue what his best team is and how to utilise the players at his disposal properly.

I don't understand the excuses people keep making for him/this. He has had enough time to change things around. 

I Can't wait for the day he leaves, that'll be the day I'll renew. I won't spend a penny watching his turgidness any more. 

(Ps; I hope this works in a weird reverse psychology way and we batter Blackburn with a cracking performance btw as ultimately I want villa to succeed) 

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by thabucks

[OutByEaster?]

3 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Oh look a different 11 from last week which will probably result in the same turgid shite performance. 

He doesn't have a clue what his best team is and how to utilise the players at his disposal properly. Cant understand the excuses people keep making for this.

In fairness, he does have Kodjia available today and Jedinak injured - what would you expect him to do?

[DaveAV1]

Although the Guardian article is from 2011, the influx of more progressive and technically minded managers into the Championship since that was written, makes it all the more relevant and worrying. I'd tweet a link to the The Doc if I hadn't refused to move with the times...... 

[jon_c]

13 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I've had a whinge in the premature thread about this. Bruce hasn't selected a single academy player for the match day squad, not even on the bench. This is a dead rubber for us, surely an opportunity missed to have a look at future prospects. We're on the road to nowhere with this mentality. 

Was talking to someone yesterday about how we're not going down, but are miles away from the play offs, and they said "at least you can give the kids a run out."

I replied without pause, that there was absolutely no chance that Bruce would play any younger players. 

It's just not in his thinking as a manager, does anyone really think he'll ever nurture young players fully into the team?

[DaveAV1]

8 minutes ago, jon_c said:

Was talking to someone yesterday about how we're not going down, but are miles away from the play offs, and they said "at least you can give the kids a run out."

I replied without pause, that there was absolutely no chance that Bruce would play any younger players. 

It's just not in his thinking as a manager, does anyone really think he'll ever nurture young players fully into the team?

Does anyone think he will nurture any players of any age?