Steve Bruce

[Grasshopper]

59 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Why are you still going on about the first two games of the season? That was a completely different team.

same manager

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

11 changes from the previous game - not really a surprise when they've basically never played together before.

You can show passion and desire.....and i would imagine they play together in plenty of practice games at BMH....I don't really buy that Pete.

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I wonder if the new contract has affected Davis.....hope not.

Come across a bit billy big bollocks when I met him, have my reservations now. He looke to work harder before the new contract, did he not?

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

So here we are on January the 7th with what almost feels like a new start. There are no more distractions, there's nothing confusing, nothing that isn't clear.

Steve Bruce has taken on a job with a clear aim and he has made sacrifices in his plan to achieve that aim. I may not like being knocked out of the cup in the fashion we were yesterday, and I might hanker for a more progressive style of football, but what I really want, and what Steve Bruce really wants and what the owner really wants and what I reckon all of us really want is now as clear as day.

Promotion is the job.

Not style, not cup runs, not making me smile every day of the season, not the beautiful game; just making all of us incredibly happy in May.

Now, given all of that, and given that I thought we'd struggle to make the playoffs this season, I think it's more than possible to suggest the manager is doing okay - don't get me wrong, the floor around my pram is littered with the toys of this season - I've been a critic and I've been more than that at times. I've also given credit to a manager who is soldiering on through a season that's at times been painful and ugly. Maybe I should have been watching the table, not the pitch. We're 5th, and 5th is okay.

We're in a position where we're 2 points clear of dropping out of the playoffs, and we're 5 points from second place - for me Wolves have one of the automatic places sewn up and with twenty games left I think there are still a dozen teams involved in the chase for the other spots that give you promotion or a shot at it.

Twenty games will tell us whether Steve Bruce is right.

Twenty games will tell us if the pragmatism and experience of the manager wins out over the occasional terrace dreamer carrying the lost ambitions of a very wounded Lion - whether results trump enjoyment.

We have a foundation, we're in the conversation. So for me, I'm giving Steve Bruce a fresh start, a clean sheet, shelving my reservations and starting today. I'm sure a number of you will find that impossible, that's your right, it hasn't been an easy tenure to enjoy and sometimes it's been difficult to endure - but it may still be one that ends where we want it to.

Twenty to Twenty=two games to play gaffer. 

Be right.

 

Fantastic post, encapsulates exactly my thoughts and feelings, thanks for illustrating so well. 

Except for the penultimate line, which I don't understand, likely because I'm being thick?! 

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Fantastic post, encapsulates exactly my thoughts and feelings, thanks for illustrating so well. 

Except for the penultimate line, which I don't understand, likely because I'm being thick?! 

Should say twenty to twenty-three games to play (depending on playoffs) - my bad!

 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

same manager

It was the same manager, that won away to 'brough and beat Bristol.

do you just wait for a defeat to try to drive home your point, even more?

Edited January 7, 2018 by TRO

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

You can show passion and desire.....and i would imagine they play together in plenty of practice games at BMH....I don't really buy that Pete.

That's fine, TRO. TBH I stay out of this thread as I've nothing new to say to what I've said previously about Bruce. I just see that it's often the case that clubs field massively changed line ups in the cup and come a cropper as a result, looking like they "lack passion" or whatever. I don't think they do, but clearly there's no continuity, no ingrained understanding and perhaps (as you implied) players try to impress as individuals, rather than as a team.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

...Steve Bruce has taken on a job with a clear aim and he has made sacrifices in his plan to achieve that aim. I may not like being knocked out of the cup in the fashion we were yesterday, and I might hanker for a more progressive style of football, but what I really want, and what Steve Bruce really wants and what the owner really wants and what I reckon all of us really want is now as clear as day.

Promotion is the job.

Not style, not cup runs, not making me smile every day of the season, not the beautiful game; just making all of us incredibly happy in May.

Now, given all of that, and given that I thought we'd struggle to make the playoffs this season, I think it's more than possible to suggest the manager is doing okay - don't get me wrong, the floor around my pram is littered with the toys of this season - I've been a critic and I've been more than that at times. I've also given credit to a manager who is soldiering on through a season that's at times been painful and ugly. Maybe I should have been watching the table, not the pitch. We're 5th, and 5th is okay.

We're in a position where we're 2 points clear of dropping out of the playoffs, and we're 5 points from second place...Twenty games will tell us whether Steve Bruce is right.

Twenty games will tell us if the pragmatism and experience of the manager wins out over the occasional terrace dreamer carrying the lost ambitions of a very wounded Lion - whether results trump enjoyment.

We have a foundation, we're in the conversation. ...

That's kind of where I was about, I dunno when I last posted in this thread, but months ago - basically, whatever my (several*) reservations about Bruce, he has to be given the whole season to either succeed or fail. Worrying about whether he should stay or go after each win/loss/draw is irrelevant. Losing yesterday means no more cup games, no injury risks, more rest and a single focus on what is, as you say, the only objective.

*The biggest one of the reservations was the coaching, and he's brought in that Agnew chap, so if he does his job, then maybe the stodgy, ponderous, inhibited "style"will be addressed anyway, which would be nice.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's fine, TRO. TBH I stay out of this thread as I've nothing new to say to what I've said previously about Bruce. I just see that it's often the case that clubs field massively changed line ups in the cup and come a cropper as a result, looking like they "lack passion" or whatever. I don't think they do, but clearly there's no continuity, no ingrained understanding and perhaps (as you implied) players try to impress as individuals, rather than as a team.

So many factors, shit/disinterested crowd, obvious lack of interest from manager/club, squad players looking to impress individually, first teamers alienated at having to play in the squad/reserve team, motivated away team and support......not justifying it, not saying its okay, but if we get promoted, no one will even remember it. 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Come across a bit billy big bollocks when I met him, have my reservations now. He looke to work harder before the new contract, did he not?

 

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's fine, TRO. TBH I stay out of this thread as I've nothing new to say to what I've said previously about Bruce. I just see that it's often the case that clubs field massively changed line ups in the cup and come a cropper as a result, looking like they "lack passion" or whatever. I don't think they do, but clearly there's no continuity, no ingrained understanding and perhaps (as you implied) players try to impress as individuals, rather than as a team.

I don't know the answer anymore the the next man, just formulating suggestions.

it seems to me over many years as soon as a percieived smaller club, face us, they come for a scalp.....we don't seem to be able to match the desire, despite our players having a point to prove.....they seem to be ok in the first team where they can be carried to an extent.

not impressed with the attitude in the main , sorry.

[DaveAV1]

There are people saying we are on a good run of form. May I remind everyone that we only got 6 points in December, the standard has generally been set at 2 points per game, and we now need considerably better than that to get into the top two, which is the club’s target for the season. Ok we’ve won the last two, both results being excellent and the performance in the Bristol City game, our best of the season. That gave us all hope that a corner had been turned, not in just regards to results, but in regards to performances. Yesterday’s incredibly poor and embarrassing performance has wiped away much of the optimism and momentum gained at the start of the week.

The question then to be asked, is which of the two performances was the one off? The great performance on Monday or the rubbish one in the FA Cup. Many might point at yesterday’s game and say, it wasn’t the real first team and it didn’t matter. If you’d have asked Bob Shankley, Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, let alone our very own Ron Saunders which games in their careers didn’t matter, I think you’d get a very straight and short answer. Winning is a mind set, you can’t turn it on and off like a tap. If we’d have gone into the Forest game with three wins on the bounce we would have been buzzing.

So was Bristol a one off? Well certainly the manner of the performance, let alone the result, wasn't what many were expecting. Steve Bruce has been in charge for over 50 games and we have never played like that against a decent team. The match before that was an extremely turgid affair, which, like so many of our games under this manager, could have gone either way. So perhaps we got everything right on the day and Bristol got everything wrong, throwing up a bit of a freak result. 

I know I enjoyed the bit of optimism I found bouncing about in my head for a few days post Monday evening. I even rationalised it by hoping that although it was unlikely SB had had an epiphany, perhaps Steve Agnew had imparted some influence and that influence may continue until the end of the season. But yesterday’s performance, regardless of the changes to the team, has left me almost back where I started as far as optimism is concerned. More especially because of the ease in which we slipped back into our old ways. Yes I was surprised by the way we played after the Bristol City game, but if you take that game out of the equation, then yesterday’s performance was really no surprise at all, in context with performances through Steve Bruce’s time here. 

I hope the Posh game was the blip, but I fear the truth is, that the one off was on Monday evening.

[foreveryoung]

Most of us agree we wouldn't take him into the Premiership, speaks volumes really.

I personally just want him to get the job done here in the Championship, Promotion, what he is being paid for, then do one! 

I'm not sure Xia or the old dude will sack a manger after getting us promoted, but this is what needs to happen. The type of football he plays will get us destroyed in the Premiership, i.e mark Hughes is getting found out right now, they both play old skool football. Management, tactics, style is changing rapidly in the game, Man City are not at the top of the league playing defensive hoofball.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

There are people saying we are on a good run of form. May I remind everyone that we only got 6 points in December, the standard has generally been set at 2 points per game, and we now need considerably better than that to get into the top two, which is the club’s target for the season. Ok we’ve won the last two, both results being excellent and the performance in the Bristol City game, our best of the season. That gave us all hope that a corner had been turned, not in just regards to results, but in regards to performances. Yesterday’s incredibly poor and embarrassing performance has wiped away much of the optimism and momentum gained at the start of the week.

The question then to be asked, is which of the two performances was the one off? The great performance on Monday or the rubbish one in the FA Cup. Many might point at yesterday’s game and say, it wasn’t the real first team and it didn’t matter. If you’d have asked Bob Shankley, Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, let alone our very own Ron Saunders which games in their careers didn’t matter, I think you’d get a very straight and short answer. Winning is a mind set, you can’t turn it on and off like a tap. If we’d have gone into the Forest game with three wins on the bounce we would have been buzzing.

So was Bristol a one off? Well certainly the manner of the performance, let alone the result, wasn't what many were expecting. Steve Bruce has been in charge for over 50 games and we have never played like that against a decent team. The match before that was an extremely turgid affair, which, like so many of our games under this manager, could have gone either way. So perhaps we got everything right on the day and Bristol got everything wrong, throwing up a bit of a freak result. 

I know I enjoyed the bit of optimism I found bouncing about in my head for a few days post Monday evening. I even rationalised it by hoping that although it was unlikely SB had had an epiphany, perhaps Steve Agnew had imparted some influence and that influence may continue until the end of the season. But yesterday’s performance, regardless of the changes to the team, has left me almost back where I started as far as optimism is concerned. More especially because of the ease in which we slipped back into our old ways. Yes I was surprised by the way we played after the Bristol City game, but if you take that game out of the equation, then yesterday’s performance was really no surprise at all, in context with performances through Steve Bruce’s time here. 

I hope the Posh game was the blip, but I fear the truth is, that the one off was on Monday evening.

I think Bill might agree too.

i don't think even Pepe could influence the team that quick never mind Steve Agnew.

Edited January 7, 2018 by TRO

[bannedfromHandV]

3 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

There are people saying we are on a good run of form. May I remind everyone that we only got 6 points in December, the standard has generally been set at 2 points per game, and we now need considerably better than that to get into the top two, which is the club’s target for the season. Ok we’ve won the last two, both results being excellent and the performance in the Bristol City game, our best of the season. That gave us all hope that a corner had been turned, not in just regards to results, but in regards to performances. Yesterday’s incredibly poor and embarrassing performance has wiped away much of the optimism and momentum gained at the start of the week.

The question then to be asked, is which of the two performances was the one off? The great performance on Monday or the rubbish one in the FA Cup. Many might point at yesterday’s game and say, it wasn’t the real first team and it didn’t matter. If you’d have asked Bob Shankley, Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, let alone our very own Ron Saunders which games in their careers didn’t matter, I think you’d get a very straight and short answer. Winning is a mind set, you can’t turn it on and off like a tap. If we’d have gone into the Forest game with three wins on the bounce we would have been buzzing.

So was Bristol a one off? Well certainly the manner of the performance, let alone the result, wasn't what many were expecting. Steve Bruce has been in charge for over 50 games and we have never played like that against a decent team. The match before that was an extremely turgid affair, which, like so many of our games under this manager, could have gone either way. So perhaps we got everything right on the day and Bristol got everything wrong, throwing up a bit of a freak result. 

I know I enjoyed the bit of optimism I found bouncing about in my head for a few days post Monday evening. I even rationalised it by hoping that although it was unlikely SB had had an epiphany, perhaps Steve Agnew had imparted some influence and that influence may continue until the end of the season. But yesterday’s performance, regardless of the changes to the team, has left me almost back where I started as far as optimism is concerned. More especially because of the ease in which we slipped back into our old ways. Yes I was surprised by the way we played after the Bristol City game, but if you take that game out of the equation, then yesterday’s performance was really no surprise at all, in context with performances through Steve Bruce’s time here. 

I hope the Posh game was the blip, but I fear the truth is, that the one off was on Monday evening.

It was 2 different teams, not sure you can compare yesterday with the Bristol City game and ask which was the truer representation, surely given that the City game saw our best XI on the pitch that it's more likely that was the true version? 

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Come across a bit billy big bollocks when I met him, have my reservations now. He looke to work harder before the new contract, did he not?

Thats concerning.

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

So here we are on January the 7th with what almost feels like a new start. There are no more distractions, there's nothing confusing, nothing that isn't clear.

Steve Bruce has taken on a job with a clear aim and he has made sacrifices in his plan to achieve that aim. I may not like being knocked out of the cup in the fashion we were yesterday, and I might hanker for a more progressive style of football, but what I really want, and what Steve Bruce really wants and what the owner really wants and what I reckon all of us really want is now as clear as day.

Promotion is the job.

Not style, not cup runs, not making me smile every day of the season, not the beautiful game; just making all of us incredibly happy in May.

Now, given all of that, and given that I thought we'd struggle to make the playoffs this season, I think it's more than possible to suggest the manager is doing okay - don't get me wrong, the floor around my pram is littered with the toys of this season - I've been a critic and I've been more than that at times. I've also given credit to a manager who is soldiering on through a season that's at times been painful and ugly. Maybe I should have been watching the table, not the pitch. We're 5th, and 5th is okay.

We're in a position where we're 2 points clear of dropping out of the playoffs, and we're 5 points from second place - for me Wolves have one of the automatic places sewn up and with twenty games left I think there are still a dozen teams involved in the chase for the other spots that give you promotion or a shot at it.

Twenty games will tell us whether Steve Bruce is right.

Twenty games will tell us if the pragmatism and experience of the manager wins out over the occasional terrace dreamer carrying the lost ambitions of a very wounded Lion - whether results trump enjoyment.

We have a foundation, we're in the conversation. So for me, I'm giving Steve Bruce a fresh start, a clean sheet, shelving my reservations and starting today. I'm sure a number of you will find that impossible, that's your right, it hasn't been an easy tenure to enjoy and sometimes it's been difficult to endure - but it may still be one that ends where we want it to.

Twenty to Twenty=two games to play gaffer. 

Be right.

 

I can only take my hat off to you, respect you 100% and admire you for coming to this point. And I wish, I really do, with all my heart I could join you, Bruce would get result after result that gets us promoted and we can be happy bunnies back in the PL and life there can find a new beginning for AFVC as a football club.

I‘d even accept midtable PL with the odd cup run or romantic win against the chosen 4/5/6 Sky favourites if it simply is so that football has moved on and we have missed the boat and dont have the rescources to compete for PL title or ChL places.

But for that 1st paragraph to be, I would have to hang on to some truth and belief that Bruce has it in him using his methodology.

My problems with that lies in that I dont believe the style of football that Bruce consistantly presents is something I see as a way to win the majority if games left and at worse only losing very few.

His „favourites“ constantly picked ahead of others in the squad. Players not played in their prefered roles and positions, the subbing on & off of players so that the mandate is a backward step over a positive one, basically setting up the game plan, the line up and system of play to fail, with the excuse that its the players and not him at fault.

I cannot support someone who is not, basically and principally, managing his responsibilities with the best interest of the club in mind.

This is something that I have aired on here since the Leeds defeat and home draw which was confounded by the Cardiff performance/result last January. At the latest I was 100% convinced by the 3-0 Brentford defeat.

Since then I have not moved from being convinced that we are wasting precious time with him. Even during the run after Derby, I swayed to „ok, I‘ll get behind him“ even though I was not convinced by „his way“ as a successful model.

Bruce has consistantly proved that the good is not sustainable and that the bad regularly rears its ugly head again.

Some will point to the „good period“ that got us to 4/5th before the slide kicked in again. We dropped out of the playoffs, only to return again. Being in or out of the top 6 is no garantee and neither is the timing when that occurs. What is a garantee is that after 46 games there is not recount, statistical adjustments taking nett spend, past promotion records or injury lists taken into account. It will be exactly what it is. 46 games P W D L GD Pts xyz and if we are not top 2, we will have to negotiate the playoffs, indeed if we finish top 6. If all those stars do not align the club not only faces a completely new challenge but with a different set of tools at hand to negotiate that task.

I will continue my belief that Bruce must go immediately whilst hoping that I am wrong for the good of the club.

Bruce Out

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

I can only take my hat off to you, respect you 100% and admire you for coming to this point. And I wish, I really do, with all my heart I could join you, Bruce would get result after result that gets us promoted and we can be happy bunnies back in the PL and life there can find a new beginning for AFVC as a football club.

I‘d even accept midtable PL with the odd cup run or romantic win against the chosen 4/5/6 Sky favourites if it simply is so that football has moved on and we have missed the boat and dont have the rescources to compete for PL title or ChL places.

But for that 1st paragraph to be, I would have to hang on to some truth and belief that Bruce has it in him using his methodology.

My problems with that lies in that I dont believe the style of football that Bruce consistantly presents is something I see as a way to win the majority if games left and at worse only losing very few.

His „favourites“ constantly picked ahead of others in the squad. Players not played in their prefered roles and positions, the subbing on & off of players so that the mandate is a backward step over a positive one, basically setting up the game plan, the line up and system of play to fail, with the excuse that its the players and not him at fault.

I cannot support someone who is not, basically and principally, managing his responsibilities with the best interest of the club in mind.

This is something that I have aired on here since the Leeds defeat and home draw which was confounded by the Cardiff performance/result last January. At the latest I was 100% convinced by the 3-0 Brentford defeat.

Since then I have not moved from being convinced that we are wasting precious time with him. Even during the run after Derby, I swayed to „ok, I‘ll get behind him“ even though I was not convinced by „his way“ as a successful model.

Bruce has consistantly proved that the good is not sustainable and that the bad regularly rears its ugly head again.

Some will point to the „good period“ that got us to 4/5th before the slide kicked in again. We dropped out of the playoffs, only to return again. Being in or out of the top 6 is no garantee and neither is the timing when that occurs. What is a garantee is that after 46 games there is not recount, statistical adjustments taking nett spend, past promotion records or injury lists taken into account. It will be exactly what it is. 46 games P W D L GD Pts xyz and if we are not top 2, we will have to negotiate the playoffs, indeed if we finish top 6. If all those stars do not align the club not only faces a completely new challenge but with a different set of tools at hand to negotiate that task.

I will continue my belief that Bruce must go immediately whilst hoping that I am wrong for the good of the club.

Bruce Out

One of your much better posts.....and i think its fair to say that your concerns are still shared by those of an alternative opinion.....albeit it would be wrong of me to speak for them.

He has to get to the end of the season, when the picture will be painted and then we can judge more accurately.

I hope he does prove you wrong, but I do get some of your concerns too.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by TRO

[Dave J]

3 hours ago, Jareth said:

Cripes, our second 11 get beat in the cup by a motivated team a league below us and suddenly Bruce has to leave immediately. This feels a bit..... hysterical?

We get beat by a motivated team  - do you realise the significance of this?.

sorry not a pop at you - but yes at him .

[HanoiVillan]

14 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I think it’s entirely possible that the Bristol game was a fluke, the pressed for the first time in Bruce’s tenure. He’s been atrocious against any half decent side up until that result. The game was a late fixture because City had to have a minimum turnover of 48 hours between matches. 

Really let’s be honest can you really see Bruce coming up with a style of play other than hoof ball between now & May? Can you see us beating all the sides currently in the playoff picture? If you do I’ll have what you’re drinking. 

 

Not this again. We played the grand total of two hours earlier, in Middlesbrough. 

[Grasshopper]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

One of your much better posts.....and i think its fair to say that your concerns are still shared by those of an alternative opinion.....albeit it would be wrong of me to speak for them.

He has to get to the end of the season, when the picture will be painted and then we can judge more accurately.

I hope he does prove you wrong, but I do get some of your concerns too.

 

Tro, all my posts are good, you just dont get most of them