Steve Bruce

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don't think we approached the game that differently. We just defended and played much better. Had Preston manage to get that penalty or score from one the pressure in second half then Bruce would have got slated for shutting up shop or the team sitting back. 

This isn't a a defence of Bruce im just saying that a lot of views will always depend on the result regardless of performance. My concern with Bruce has always been the inability for players to hold the ball. That can only be down to the coaching. I don't think this will ever improve with him and his staff in charge. If we still win games im happy with that.

But against better teams like Cardiff and Wolves if you give he ball back so easily time after time you will get punished. 

I think we were more positive in the way we started the game last night personally but I absolutely agree with you on the rest.

[wilko154]

4 minutes ago, villarocker said:

You say that but, would you like to see a run of games where both Chester and Terry are out injured and/or suspended? That's what Preston are facing tight now with their defence and it has resulted in their dip in form.

Who would Bruce put in as our central pairing if Terry and Chester were out? Samba and De Laet? Samba and Hutton? Samba and Jedinak? It's ok to say that other teams don't have strength in depth like us but, at the back, we don't have much depth either. 

This is a worry, I thought it myself when the commentator mentioned it last week.

CB we have Samba, Richards or a full back... not the greatest of options.

LB we have a right back, to be fair Hutton has been magnificent though.

Wingers we have Green & Grealish but both have fitness issues, otherwise its a case of sticking a CM or ST out wide.

 

Our depth comes in to play in middle of the park, up top and at right back.

[hippo]

48 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

For me, irrespective if he wins us promotion this season I would still like to see him replaced once we are back in the Premier Lge.

I just do not feel confident under this guy even if we lost 1 in the last 29!

I'm not fickle. I just don't like him.

I actually think that is the problem with Bruce. We all know his ceiling is probably 4th bottom in the prem - not great football, and not scoring many goals.

Thats not say he won't get us promoted by grinding  out results but not setting the world on fire. I think his brief is 'by any means just get us promoted'  Tbh there looks a reasonable chance he could deliver just that.

 

[Demitri_C]

8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yes and a lot of it has been justified.

I don’t though see how that is relevant to the point you were making and I disputed. You were trying to say this win proves the criticism about our performances away against top sides was unjustified.

Well one result in isolation doesn’t remove that criticism or somehow make the previous criticism invalid.

Last night was a huge improvement, it is how those of us who have been critical have wanted to see us approach games. You can’t tell me we didn’t approach last night differently.

Your last line about “if we had played like that” that is pretty much the point people being critical are making! So you seem to be unaware you are in agreement while trying to make the criticism seem unreasonable.

 

It is relevant as thise two games were early on the season. I think if we were playing cardiff tomorrow we would be much better than what we were back against cardiff. We had no davis, kodjia, jedinak, snodgrass adomah wasnt starting as was hourihane. I put those two results down to early season fitness and bruce trying to find his best team.

I always said the result will come and strides were being made despite you saying no progress has been made since last season!

We are finally seeing the benefits of this. But saying that dont get me wrong its not perfect but the platform is there. You also dismissed when i said we have the potential to be a great side and couldnt take what i said seriously.

Last night we saw that, a great team performance from every single player and i am absolutely proud of them for the first time in years 

 

 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, villarocker said:

You say that but, would you like to see a run of games where both Chester and Terry are out injured and/or suspended? That's what Preston are facing tight now with their defence and it has resulted in their dip in form.

Who would Bruce put in as our central pairing if Terry and Chester were out? Samba and De Laet? Samba and Hutton? Samba and Jedinak? It's ok to say that other teams don't have strength in depth like us but, at the back, we don't have much depth either. 

To be honest I think a lot championship teams would like to have samba, De Laet, Jedinak as reserve defenders. I actually think that is one of the plus points for us as the season goes on.

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

I actually think that is the problem with Bruce. We all know his ceiling is probably 4th bottom in the prem - not great football, and not scoring many goals.

Thats not say he won't get us promoted by grinding  out results but not setting the world on fire. I think his brief is 'by any means just get us promoted'  Tbh there looks a reasonable chance he could deliver just that.

 

He will be well rewarded if he does achieve that - in the premiership we could attract far better than him and I doubt he’d last long 

[hippo]

Just now, Eastie said:

He will be well rewarded if he does achieve that - in the premiership we could attract far better than him and I doubt he’d last long 

Whats long though ? - Promoted teams generally have a honeymoon period. 

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

To be honest I think a lot championship teams would like to have samba, De Laet, Jedinak as reserve defenders. I actually think that is one of the plus points for us as the season goes on.

Possibly quite a few would like them as first choice defenders 

[terrytini]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don't think we approached the game that differently. We just defended and played much better. Had Preston manage to get that penalty or score from one the pressure in second half then Bruce would have got slated for shutting up shop or the team sitting back. 

This isn't a a defence of Bruce im just saying that a lot of views will always depend on the result regardless of performance. My concern with Bruce has always been the inability for players to hold the ball. That can only be down to the coaching. I don't think this will ever improve with him and his staff in charge. If we still win games im happy with that.

But against better teams like Cardiff and Wolves if you give he ball back so easily time after time you will get punished. 

Agree except the first sentence.

I think we DID play differently and have been gradually doing so, or st least trying to for the most part, for about a month or so now.

To me there is a subtle but significant  shift to being less defensive in selection, approach, and tactics.... which I’ve personally wanted for nearly a year...

.I never thought a huge shift was needed and knew Bruce’s sides have never played the possession game etc - and in that respect I think you are quite correct we have and will had struggles against good sides ( and poor ones too to be fair)

i think he has been too defensive for too long - he has openly stated why now do at least he had a reason - but I don’t think we are the same now.

 

[Eastie]

Just now, hippo said:

Whats long though ? - Promoted teams generally have a honeymoon period. 

Usually have an idea after 10 games how thIngs are looking - October /November ?

maybe wTh more funds he could get much better players in but I’m not convinced he would succeed In the premiership , let’s hope we find out soon .

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

It is relevant as thise two games were early on the season. I think if we were playing cardiff tomorrow we would be much better than what we were back against cardiff. We had no davis, kodjia, jedinak, snodgrass adomah wasnt starting as was hourihane. I put those two results down to early season fitness and bruce trying to find his best team.

I always said the result will come and strides were being made despite you saying no progress has been made since last season!

We are finally seeing the benefits of this. But saying that dont get me wrong its not perfect but the platform is there. You also dismissed when i said we have the potential to be a great side and couldnt take what i said seriously.

Last night we saw that, a great team performance from every single player and i am absolutely proud of them for the first time in years 

And at the time I said it no progress had been made from last season, that progress has since been made doesn’t make what I said 3 months ago retrospectively inaccurate.

As for the Cardiff game, that was Bruce’s choice not to play Hourihane or Adomah so don’t try and spin that one like they weren’t available to him! Yes we had some players out at the time, just like Preston did last night.

So I don’t think you can apply that logic to our game with Cardiff but ignore it in reference to last night.

I still don’t take your suggestion we are a great side seriously.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Agree except the first sentence.

I think we DID play differently and have been gradually doing so, or st least trying to for the most part, for about a month or so now.

To me there is a subtle but significant  shift to being less defensive in selection, approach, and tactics.... which I’ve personally wanted for nearly a year...

.I never thought a huge shift was needed and knew Bruce’s sides have never played the possession game etc - and in that respect I think you are quite correct we have and will had struggles against good sides ( and poor ones too to be fair)

i think he has been too defensive for too long - he has openly stated why now do at least he had a reason - but I don’t think we are the same now.

 

I think Whelan has helped us approach games differently. I know he gets a lot of criticism at times but he really does give us great balance. I think Roy Keane summed it up when he said something along the lines of you won't realise how important Whelan is to a team until he is no longer in it.

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Agree except the first sentence.

I think we DID play differently and have been gradually doing so, or st least trying to for the most part, for about a month or so now.

To me there is a subtle but significant  shift to being less defensive in selection, approach, and tactics.... which I’ve personally wanted for nearly a year...

.I never thought a huge shift was needed and knew Bruce’s sides have never played the possession game etc - and in that respect I think you are quite correct we have and will had struggles against good sides ( and poor ones too to be fair)

i think he has been too defensive for too long - he has openly stated why now do at least he had a reason - but I don’t think we are the same now.

 

Has been better since Elmo went to right back as well wiTh snodgrass linking well with him.

sometimes it takes time to get it right and terry and Chester have now formed a rock solid partnership with Johnstone also very solid this season .

Davis hold up and link play is superb and brings players into the game - there are some good signs throughout the side and it will get better .

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think Whelan has helped us approach games differently. I know he gets a lot of criticism at times but he really does give us great balance. I think Roy Keane summed it up when he said something along the lines of you won't realise how important Whelan is to a team until he is no longer in it.

Been much better the last 2 games - seems to be getting to grips with the pace of things now 

[Demitri_C]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

And at the time I said it no progress had been made from last season, that progress has since been made doesn’t make what I said 3 months ago retrospectively inaccurate.

As for the Cardiff game, that was Bruce’s choice not to play Hourihane or Adomah so don’t try and spin that one like they weren’t available to him! Yes we had some players out at the time, just like Preston did last night.

So I don’t think you can apply that logic to our game with Cardiff but ignore it in reference to last night.

I still don’t take your suggestion we are a great side seriously.

So ill ask you directly now do you feel progress has been made?

They were available to him adomah came off bench and hourihane never played. Both mistakes from bruce but i think i can let it slide as he was still trying to find his best side back then or maybe they were not applying themselves well in training i dont really want to speculate on that.

Why cant you take it? For this level i dont see how you cannot feel this side has the potential to be a great side. 

We have kept numerous clean sheets, only the best side in the league on their ground has beaten us. Prior to that it was 8 games ago ve cardiff. Furthermore goals are coming from all over the pitch not just relying on kodjia. Unbeaten at villa park also is welcome.

I am really happy at the progress we are making, and i still sont think we have come close to peaking.

[trom_borg]

Fair play to SB for getting the team fired up and ready for this one, and we look solid and organised now. Just not very spectacular going forward. 

I was frustrated pre-match for the lack of rotating. I felt some players didnt deserve to start after their last performance, and Im not sure it gives the right signal to neither the starting players nor the squad that their place in the team isnt really affected by their performance. We're in good form and have performed well over the last 10-12 games,  but we've hardly made any changes in the way we set up that wasnt forced by injury or suspension, and different games sometimes needs different approaches and different setups. SB seems to more stumble upon the working formula for some games rather than making conscious adjustments. Yesterday it worked well and we have a good base now so credit to him for that, but I'd wish he'd change it up a bit more often, Wolves, shitty and even Bolton games comes to mind. In the last couple of games SB had got his subs completely right though so thats a move in the right direction. 

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

So ill ask you directly now do you feel progress has been made?

They were available to him adomah came off bench and hourihane never played. Both mistakes from bruce but i think i can let it slide as he was still trying to find his best side back then or maybe they were not applying themselves well in training i dont really want to speculate on that.

Why cant you take it? For this level i dont see how you cannot feel this side has the potential to be a great side. 

We have kept numerous clean sheets, only the best side in the league on their ground has beaten us. Prior to that it was 8 games ago ve cardiff. Furthermore goals are coming from all over the pitch not just relying on kodjia. Unbeaten at villa park also is welcome.

I am really happy at the progress we are making, and i still sont think we have come close to peaking.

I said in my last post progress had been made Dem I’m not sure anyone would argue otherwise.

Re Cardiff, they were mistakes from Bruce which is in part why people were so critical at the time. We were woeful in that game and in my view he left those two on the bench not for the reasons you suggest may have been the cause but because he approached the game in a negative way.

We are above average to good Championship side at present, we are a very very long way from being a great side.

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I said in my last post progress had been made Dem I’m not sure anyone would argue otherwise.

Re Cardiff, they were mistakes from Bruce which is in part why people were so critical at the time. We were woeful in that game and in my view he left those two on the bench not for the reasons you suggest may have been the cause but because he approached the game in a negative way.

We are above average to good Championship side at present, we are a very very long way from being a great side.

Wahey something positive from you i kmew id break you down eventually 

Fair enough i disagree and think the potential is there for the reasons stated. But the one thing i will say we got to do those kind of performances consistently. No point playing like that and then putting a blose type performance in against wednesday on saturday.

I do have a concern about burnout though. Playing sunday, wednesday and saturday. Preston and wednesday have had a days extra rest ahead of us. Lets hope that doesnt play a role on saturday. 

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

 

Lots of people on here would of been champing at the 451 with onomah when it was announced

.

A lot of people seem to think that an attacking formation merely means playing more strikers.

When we play a 4-5-1 well we are much more attacking than we've ever looked playing 4-4-2 under Bruce.

But 4-4-2 has more strikers!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 2, 2017 by Stevo985

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Wahey something positive from you i kmew id break you down eventually  

Dem if you actually read what I posted properly in the first place you wouldn’t need to try!