briny_ear Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Dave J said: With the very greatest of respect that's a nonsense in my view. both clubs have under performed in recent seasons - both clubs get taken over at roughly the same time by experienced managers - one gets a pot of gold whilst the a pittance and guess what happens next- yeah I suppose it is pointless comparing it'll only make me full of envy If you are seriously trying to argue that Aston Villa and Cardiff City have had similar performance, management, ownership, squad cost, and player motivation issues over the past 6 years, there doesn't seem much point in continuing a discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 20 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Playoffs were definitely possible from where we were. If by "promotion" you mean automatic, then no I don't think that was possible from the position Bruce took over. Agree. I think automatic was not completely impossible, but seriously unrealistic. Playoff places were the goal when he started and were attainable. If he didn’t think so, he was fraudulent in accepting the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 17 hours ago, Nigel said: yep, first signing he made pretty much. Its not even worth pointing out though really. Some just want to find any old stick. My bad, I looked at a web site and misread it. But my point is still the same. I was responding to a post crediting Bruce for trying to replace kodjia. Kodjia was gone for 4 weeks before a replacement was signed and AFCON was closer to done than starting. It was poor planning at a minimum. My point about Lansbury and Hourihane was right, too. Bruce has good results now, I’m delighted, I hope it continues, happy for him to stay as long as it does. (Hardly clutching at any old stick). But his list of obvious blunders that slowed down the process to get us here is embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 6 hours ago, briny_ear said: If you are seriously trying to argue that Aston Villa and Cardiff City have had similar performance, management, ownership, squad cost, and player motivation issues over the past 6 years, there doesn't seem much point in continuing a discussion. No your right - your absolutely bang on the money, we have outshone them at every single juncture and guess what ? The table tells its own story !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Dave J said: No your right - your absolutely bang on the money, we have outshone them at every single juncture and guess what ? The table tells its own story !! I'll end it for you both. Dave you spelt your wrong twice in the same sentence. You lose 10 points per spelling. Which means you now can't compare Cardiff to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 hours ago, TRO said: Stones....glasshouses, anybody. I don’t need to find excuses, Bruces results stand for themselves. You may think summer has arrived based on a good September, but overall Bruce’s performances at this club has been ordinary at best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, villan_007 said: I'll end it for you both. Dave you spelt your wrong twice in the same sentence. You lose 10 points per spelling. Which means you now can't compare Cardiff to us. Guilty as charged - your're correct to point this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Dave J said: No your right - your absolutely bang on the money, we have outshone them at every single juncture and guess what ? The table tells its own story !! I have no idea what you are trying to argue here. If you think I have been saying that Aston Villa have "outshone" Cardiff "at every single juncture" over the past 6 years, I can easily confirm that I have not been saying that. Does that help settle the controversy, whatever it was about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Basically this, automatic promotion was off the table, playoffs were more than realistic given resources, total failure to finish where we did, Let's hope he puts it right this time around! Just imagine what would have happened to us this season if Bruce or any manager had managed to get the pre January team up. We all knew that team wasnt ready; Id guess that Bruce knew it too, hence the massive recruitment drive and the inevitable loss of form as they settled. It was/is hard to admit but we needed this season down here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Dave J said: That's very convenient of you - Warnock inherited a club stuck in neutral, with limited resources, budget etc, a passionate but limited fan base that could generate extra funding - you see where this is heading? And yet within weeks Warnock got this lot cooking - and looking upwards, yet Bruce with his untold millions and 4 promotions ( I keep hearing ) took a year to look anything like a team that might just be able to sneak the play offs - it's ridiculous to compere Bruce to Warnocks achievemts in the same period and I don't like Warnock I agree, yet pretty much everyone who is "anti-Bruce" keeps doing this over and over and over and over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted October 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2017 You know its an international break when the arguments are about technicalities in posts rather than the posts themselves..... Bring back the football! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted October 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: I agree, yet pretty much everyone who is "anti-Bruce" keeps doing this over and over and over and over... Pretty much everyone? I'm sorry this is a ridiculous statement... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, briny_ear said: I have no idea what you are trying to argue here. If you think I have been saying that Aston Villa have "outshone" Cardiff "at every single juncture" over the past 6 years, I can easily confirm that I have not been saying that. Does that help settle the controversy, whatever it was about? The controversy is - Aston Villa aren't top. What then happens is that we need to pick an overachieving team and compare them directly to Aston Villa to reaffirm that our manager just isn't good enough. Last season it was Huddersfield and Wagner, this season it's Cardiff and Warnock (until someone else, maybe Preston(?) sneaks up there or Sheff Utd(?)). Then we can constantly state how our squad is **** amazing and, thus, our manager is shit. Repeat ad infinitum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, Nigel said: Just imagine what would have happened to us this season if Bruce or any manager had managed to get the pre January team up. We all knew that team wasnt ready; Id guess that Bruce knew it too, hence the massive recruitment drive and the inevitable loss of form as they settled. It was/is hard to admit but we needed this season down here! I'm guessing exactly the same as what will happen this summer if we go up. We buy 6/7 premier league players to try to stay up then build on it. Staying down isn't good for anyone that's why we need to hope Bruce can get us up. I bet Leeds said similar about taking an extra year all those years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, briny_ear said: I have no idea what you are trying to argue here. If you think I have been saying that Aston Villa have "outshone" Cardiff "at every single juncture" over the past 6 years, I can easily confirm that I have not been saying that. Does that help settle the controversy, whatever it was about? Not really tbh - maybe I misunderstood you're op ? It appeared to me that you felt that Bruce inherited a bigger mess than the one Warnock did at Cardiff ? And my response to this is that actually in my view Aston Villa have continued with significantly more resources than Cardiff could ever hoped to have in the past few years and this continued at the start of Bruce's tenure and look at the table now - this is my take on the matter. apologies if we are at crossed wires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, bobzy said: The controversy is - Aston Villa aren't top. What then happens is that we need to pick an overachieving team and compare them directly to Aston Villa to reaffirm that our manager just isn't good enough. Last season it was Huddersfield and Wagner, this season it's Cardiff and Warnock (until someone else, maybe Preston(?) sneaks up there or Sheff Utd(?)). Then we can constantly state how our squad is **** amazing and, thus, our manager is shit. Repeat ad infinitum. To be fair to Warnock his results since joining Cardiff have been promotions level. You can argue about the mess both had to deal with all day long but his results gave been better than Bruce. He's also got a track record of promotions over the years so for me there's not much difference in their CV to split them. I hope by the end of October we can all be getting carried away with Bruce but for most the jury is still out. We still haven't hit the heights these players should be getting to but the next 3 will give us an idea of what this team played is made of. I just hope regardless of the Wolves result we can pack Villa Park v Fulham. 4 points next month will be a decent return but I think we can look at 7+ If we click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 hours ago, lexicon said: So I've been avoiding this thread like the plague for the past week or so - same old circular arguments where nobody concedes anything or changes their mind? What has changed is we are discussing win ratios. To transfer the win ratios to the value of this thread, its Bruce In 3 points, Unsure 1 point, and Bruce Out 0 points. Bruce's thread win ratio works out to be about 34%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 This thread is becoming as nondescript as Bruce and Warnock , themselves.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, AJ said: What has changed is we are discussing win ratios. To transfer the win ratios to the value of this thread, its Bruce In 3 points, Unsure 1 point, and Bruce Out 0 points. Bruce's thread win ratio works out to be about 34%. But the thread is very unattractive and not progressive enough. I want a new thread. Steve Bruce thread out! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 This thread is a dinosaur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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