Steve Bruce

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah. This run of form is now considered to be the way it was all planned and it is bound to continue. I'm afraid that just isn't realistic. Obviously we all hope that the run continues and we get promoted, but there is a bloody long way to go.

SB had longer winning streaks last season and we finished 13th. The encouraging thing is that we are actually playing better football and that encourages me, but only to a level of slight optimism, rather than planning a promotion party. I'm not trying to have a dig, anymore than saying I haven't enjoyed the turn round in style and results, but it will probably be May before we will really know which division we will be playing in next season.

I don't think anyone is getting carried away Dave....encouraging i think is the popular description.

The last 40 games that you mention, were the ones we used to build up to this....instant improvement was never practical.....to use those games to criticise i think is disingenuous.

i'm sorry to hear you haven't enjoyed the turn around in the style and results, perhaps we can do better.i think its likely it will be May before we know what division we will be in....October may be asking a lot.....just teasing.

 

[mykeyb]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I appreciate your sentiments, but i do not share the view that SB has not got it in his locker to play the kind if football that has got us believing again.....however i agree about the green shoots.

i think it was circumstances and that is down to interpretation.

He has never had a top job, a bit like Neil Warnock if you like and has always had to play it fairly modestly in the transfer market.

He took over us when were in serious state ( and that is no disrespect to RDM either) his first job was to stop the haemarroging, now this is where i think a bit of interpretation between the fans and SB went amiss.

How long does it take to build a squad that takes you away from just holding the fort to expansive entertaining football.....i think he needed a nudge and i think the fans gave it to him.

We all know the squad on paper is in a much better position to morph in to playing that expansive football, whereas last season we was not and it could have undone us.

The "time" we often mention is partly intangible, because none of us know how long these things take.....for sure we can all cite examples, but all clubs have unique circumstances that are difficult to emulate.

I think we have a guy in charge who is a safe pair of hands, not a footballing confusious, but a guy who knows his way around this division, has a good working relationship with steve round and Keith Wyness and i feel a relationship with the owner, where they both want the same thing.

Aston Villa need to win their football matches, then the personalities will disappear and we can get back to a unified ground and us all singing of the same hymn sheet.

and our owner can talk to us again with joy.....just kidding.

Interesting reading, you did a bit of fence jumping after the Brentford game without explicitly using the phrase Bruce out, for that reason alone I would have thought you should understand the doubts that some fans still have about our managers ability to get us promoted.

Many many fans still had faith that Bruce was the right man after our quite dreadful January, the flipside to that coin is..........

A win on Saturday will be great, even better if we can take something from Wolves. Let's hope he keeps proving the doubters wrong.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

what are you disagreeing with?

It's the lack of style & Defensive cautious approach which is what doesnt suit the better players we have.

No Style , suits Hutton, Bacuna and Gaby

I didnt see the game, but I'm happy with the 3 points and if we played well (which seems to be) then great. Because thats exactly why I, you and others have critisized the hoofball.

Now here's hoping he doesnt revert to type like post Norwich/Wigan.

Somehow it's in me to believe he will revert at some point, I wonder why that is?

The bIt I'm disagreeing with is where you say the last few results are more to do with the players.

I think the improvement in results, ( which is still in early early days despite the 'positive hysteria' as Bruce might describe it ) but more importantly the improvement in performance - which again I think is being overstated - are down to Bruce finally ( for whatever reason) abandoning much of his caution and allowing the players to play.

In that regard he deserves credit as any manager would.

I must say though pleasing as that is he is now only doing what I think we could reasonably have expected ages ago......and it remains to be seen if it lasts !!

So all I'm saying GH is the players were always fine last nights performance was s direct result of Bruce playing more positively so I can't say it's just because of the players.

As it happens I also think he will revert to a more cautious approach. I hope not.

And yes we did play well last night, although we had a long period on the second half which was poor and showed up our failings as regards ball retention and sitting deep... it's just that it didn't matter as we were 3-0 up !!

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Well yes. Form is over a small period of time, picking a small sample of games to class it as form for something required over a long period of games is daft and pointless. 

We're in promotion form yet league position, points and average points are not promotion, makes perfect sense. 

It's the same as saying Adomah is in Ballon dor winning form, he isn't, he's in good form in a small sample of games recently. 

No, that's not the same thing at all. Adomah being in good form is not the same as being in the sort of form that the best player in the world hits.

Whereas, winning 3 games in a row and being unbeaten in 7(?) is the form that a promoted team would achieve.  The same way that a team plummeting down the table having lost, say, 4 games in a row would be in "relegation form". 

But apparently only Cardiff and Sheffield United can be in promotion form right now, eh? This despite Cardiff being 10th in the last 6 form table...

[bobzy]

49 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah.

Has anyone actually said anything even remotely like this?

The general consensus seems to be "I'm pleased we're winning" rather than "Steve Bruce is amazing".

[terrytini]

51 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah. This run of form is now considered to be the way it was all planned and it is bound to continue. 

I'm not sure many are saying that. I've seen TRO suggest we were always 'developing' towards this stage but not many others. 

At the games and a fair bit on here, I'm hearing people say "thank God he seems to have stopped thinking we can block our way up and instead started using the talent we have "

But the reason for the joy is understandable Things have been garbage for so long people are desperate to be happy about something.

I know I am. Last night was the first game I've enjoyed for months.

And I think the optimism comes because he himself has said he has deliberately been defensive and that it is time to stop that.

I do agree it's over the top - it's only two weeks ago we were clueless against 10 men, and these wins are against bottom half Clubs, - but that's what some said about people wanting him gone !!

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I'm not sure many are saying that. I've seen TRO suggest we were always 'developing' towards this stage but not many others. 

At the games and a fair bit on here, I'm hearing people say "thank God he seems to have stopped thinking we can block our way up and instead started using the talent we have "

But the reason for the joy is understandable Things have been garbage for so long people are desperate to be happy about something.

I know I am. Last night was the first game I've enjoyed for months.

And I think the optimism comes because he himself has said he has deliberately been defensive and that it is time to stop that.

I do agree it's over the top - it's only two weeks ago we were clueless against 10 men, and these wins are against bottom half Clubs, - but that's what some said about people wanting him gone !!

 

I think its fair to say that is a significant call and very tangible piece of criteria and one to suggest it can be sustained.....I must admit I was unsure of this being the case.....but yes, it was admitted.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

52 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Interesting reading, you did a bit of fence jumping after the Brentford game without explicitly using the phrase Bruce out, for that reason alone I would have thought you should understand the doubts that some fans still have about our managers ability to get us promoted.

Many many fans still had faith that Bruce was the right man after our quite dreadful January, the flipside to that coin is..........

A win on Saturday will be great, even better if we can take something from Wolves. Let's hope he keeps proving the doubters wrong.

Without doubt, i was wavering, but I think my anger was getting the better of my judgment.....The Brentford Game tested my resolve, I will admit it.

I can perfectly understand the doubts some fans have.....and we are not out of the woods yet......"Its a long and  winding road" sorry for the pun.

but remember we are talking about opinions.....There are no facts yet to establish whether SB will deliver or not.....we have to wait until seasons end.....but I think he will, just my call.

Personally I had more faith in the concept that these things take time to develop, than unconditional faith in the man.....I believe him to be a safe pair of hands, who knows his way around this task, no mean feat....but I do not see him as a budding Jose with meticulous attention to detail.

However, along with the team, he needs my support and I will give it.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I don't think anyone is getting carried away Dave....encouraging i think is the popular description.

The last 40 games that you mention, were the ones we used to build up to this....instant improvement was never practical.....to use those games to criticise i think is disingenuous.

i'm sorry to hear you haven't enjoyed the turn around in the style and results, perhaps we can do better.i think its likely it will be May before we know what division we will be in....October may be asking a lot.....just teasing.

 

To be fair ,he did say he was slightly encouraged by the recent improvement in our football,as would any self - respecting supporter would be . I think he has a point, in calling for some perspective. 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by sheepyvillian
Grammar

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

To be fair ,he did say he was slightly encouraged by the recent improvement in our football,as would any self - respecting supporter would be . I think he has a point, in calling for some perspective. 

 

Oh Absolutely.

[sheepyvillian]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

Oh Absolutely.

I gotta say TRO , those wasted school days are like a millstone round my neck .

[DaveAV1]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't think anyone is getting carried away Dave....encouraging i think is the popular description.

The last 40 games that you mention, were the ones we used to build up to this....instant improvement was never practical.....to use those games to criticise i think is disingenuous.

i'm sorry to hear you haven't enjoyed the turn around in the style and results, perhaps we can do better.i think its likely it will be May before we know what division we will be in....October may be asking a lot.....just teasing.

 

Some people have clearly got carried away, but that's their prerogative. I think you need to reread some of my post TRO, I say I have enjoyed the turn around. Who wouldn't? My fear is that it lacks consistency, but hopefully my fears are unfounded .

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, bobzy said:

Has anyone actually said anything even remotely like this?

The general consensus seems to be "I'm pleased we're winning" rather than "Steve Bruce is amazing".

Well some people have, but you're right the general consensus is probably cautious optimism. I think in respect to AVFC, I've become a glass half empty person, which is the exact opposite to my normal self and indeed my attitude to our wonderful football club. More wins please, then I'll soon be cured!

[Lerner's Driver]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

GH there is nothing in life that is all bad, everything if we search hard enough has a bit of good.

you have never troubled yourself to look for the slightest bit of good in Steve Bruce no matter how trivial.....I find that intransigent and mean.

I take it all the footballing philosophies you call on, but you have rarely seen his point of view, even if you disagreed with him.....one of stopping the rot, even if it was boring.

i have understood your position and acknowledged the football was turgid, but not once did you ever acknowledge that it could be that the work needed time to buy players and blend them.....it was always now, why are we crap now.....why is it not happening now.

We all have differences of opinion ,i accept that, i can't remember you ever seeing the other side of the coin, even when other opinions supporting Bruce was put forward.

so sorry mate, i think you could of made more of an effort of at least acknowledging another point of view.

but hey.......lets just support the Villa.

Agreed.

[macandally]

We will find out whether we have truly turned a corner and are now thinking like title contenders when we play the likes of Wolves.

If we turn up playing 4-4-2 and go at them then I may believe Bruce believes, if we go back to the usual defensive line up and pay them too much respect, it will show Bruce cannot change his spots.  It will also send the wrong message to the players in that Brucethinks Wolves are the better side.  For me, we should always feel we are the better side and go at whoever we face.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

Well some people have, but you're right the general consensus is probably cautious optimism. I think in respect to AVFC, I've become a glass half empty person, which is the exact opposite to my normal self and indeed my attitude to our wonderful football club. More wins please, then I'll soon be cured!

I think there's a natural negatively that our fans adopt during the course of a football season following the past few years. For me, the football under Bruce on the whole has been poor and just not entertaining. That's a big deal for me - I enjoy watching football when it's enjoyable, rather than just being dull.

At the same time, whilst I definitely wanted him sacked (and wouldn't be too fussed if he was now, in any case) I think winning games rightfully gets him more time and he should get kudos for getting us on a decent unbeaten run. Long may it continue. 

My concern is the aforementioned negativity. As I said elsewhere, I can see us beating Bolton then losing at Wolves. If that happened, there'll be a whole bunch of "Bruce out" and negative posts again. Because that's what we seemingly do best. 

[Demitri_C]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah. This run of form is now considered to be the way it was all planned and it is bound to continue. I'm afraid that just isn't realistic. Obviously we all hope that the run continues and we get promoted, but there is a bloody long way to go.

SB had longer winning streaks last season and we finished 13th. The encouraging thing is that we are actually playing better football and that encourages me, but only to a level of slight optimism, rather than planning a promotion party. I'm not trying to have a dig, anymore than saying I haven't enjoyed the turn round in style and results, but it will probably be May before we will really know which division we will be playing in next season.

Show me a post where anyone has hailed him as "messiah" dave? People are just praising him on the recent upturn in form and rightly so 

Most I think is keeping their feet on the ground and just trying to stay positive and hope we have turned a corner 

 

[wilko154]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah. This run of form is now considered to be the way it was all planned and it is bound to continue. I'm afraid that just isn't realistic. Obviously we all hope that the run continues and we get promoted, but there is a bloody long way to go.

SB had longer winning streaks last season and we finished 13th. The encouraging thing is that we are actually playing better football and that encourages me, but only to a level of slight optimism, rather than planning a promotion party. I'm not trying to have a dig, anymore than saying I haven't enjoyed the turn round in style and results, but it will probably be May before we will really know which division we will be playing in next season.

So are you saying when we play badly we should slate Bruce... but when we play well we should all be silent and wait for him to fail again?

No one thinks this is what Bruce planned, they are just happy that we are beginning to look like a serious football club again. Bruce get's a lot of stick, and early on in the season rightly so, but the players had to take a look at themselves as well. They are now performing well together under some decent tactics from Bruce and long may it continue.

[KHV]

57 minutes ago, macandally said:

We will find out whether we have truly turned a corner and are now thinking like title contenders when we play the likes of Wolves.

If we turn up playing 4-4-2 and go at them then I may believe Bruce believes, if we go back to the usual defensive line up and pay them too much respect, it will show Bruce cannot change his spots.  It will also send the wrong message to the players in that Brucethinks Wolves are the better side.  For me, we should always feel we are the better side and go at whoever we face.

If we turn up at wolves with a 4-4-2 I think we will be in serious trouble

[Ingram85]

I think an out the blue run of 3 good games following a 40+ run of shite to mediocre suggests a change of fortune rather than some grand master plan coming together. 

The give away is the 'click of the finger' change in results. No build up to this run suggests just that. Having said that, the past few games have been great to watch despite it coming from nowhere so the optimism in me is growing and if Bruce carries on getting the wins then by all means he deserves the plaudits. 3 games however, not enough for me to change my indifferent opinion of him just yet. Definitely doesn't deserve the sack now but forgive me if I'm not working the shaft just yet either as I don't quite believe he is the genius behind the plan. If this run continues for a while though that opinion could change.

I'm aware this post may get caught up in the Bruce hate camp but I'm so indifferent at the moment that its more of a no mans land type deal. Im not a Bruce hater, I like the bloke - I wish he didnt make stuff up in the press but he was trying to save face so may have panicked - but I really do hope he proves myself and others wrong as it will be to the benefit of Villa and will also help make me believe he was Bruce the manager I hoped we had got when he first arrived. I want him to succeed. I really do. UTV!