Steve Bruce

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I think both of them are right. 

He says some things that are good but he also continues to mention restrictions and having his hands tied, which there really is no need to keep going on about, especially days after he has publicly stated his whole system we spent all of pre season working on has been ruined due to an injury. 

He mentions summer spendings but fails to mention January. He talks about wasting money but nothing about how he's got nothing out of Hogan and Bjarnasson. Nothing about how he picks Bacuna over hourihane, Hutton over Bree. It comes across as an excuse because he's painting his own picture by ignoring any parts of the truth that reflect badly on him. If he was just being honest and not making excuses then why not say the full picture?

I certainly don't see it as a rallying cry. Talking about how his hands are tied 2 days before the season kicks off isn't what I imagine inspires players and fans. 

He's just done a lot of complaining this week. Very strange timing and for me it's down to the pressure he's starting to feel. He knows he's not staying in this job unless he gets off to a good start. 

A lot of this does actually make sense to me. Particularly the part about ignoring the Jan signings not playing. Hadn't thought of that. I don't think any manager would talk about that sort of thing though and paint themselves as a bad manager though. You've certainly opened my eyes up a bit here. One thing I'm guilty of is always trying to see the best in people/situations... usually too much!! I think I am guilty of this with Bruce! 

However, I do not think for a second that there is any 'better fan' stuff going on with people who have a different opinion. That's just plain wrong and quite offensive to the majority of people on this site.

 

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I was planning to stay out of this thread until we were a few games in but....

I'm utterly sick of the excuse culture at Villa, it's been present for years now. There is always an excuse but behind all the excuses is pure under performance and if we are to get out of this division it has to stop.

I'm really disappointed in Bruce over the last week, I expect more from our manager.

The club have been up front about the restrictions this summer and I'm sure he knew about them when he spent the money he spent in January.

He could have held that money back for this summer but he gambled on trying to get up last season. Only his signings weren't a success, largely due to his football in my opinion.

Whatever restrictions we have in place this summer the message from him as the leader of the football side of the club should be positive. It should be we have enough, we are going for this.

But just like his football Bruce isn't positive.

Compare and contrast the words of Bruce to those of the skipper he just signed, no hint of excuses from him. Just clear set in stone expectation, Terry demands success.

Bruce, well Bruce sounds like a man hoping for it but getting a few excuses in just in case it isn't forthcoming.

He sounds like a man who fears he could be under pressure early in the season.

Just not what I want to hear on the eve of a new season.

Some on here will think this is negative, well actually it's the opposite. I'm positive, I think we've enough in the squad, it's the manager who isn't positive. He won't be positive in his approach to games and somewhere that is going to have an impact on the dressing room.

He has had a good summer in terms of arrivals, just like January even if he has been some what limited by FFP. Time for Bruce to deliver, I don't want to hear excuses.

I completely disagree with the notion that Bruce is offering any excuses. He is being pragmatic, open and honest. Why? Because that's who he is. 

After reading the whole article, its just another silly interview with the same rubbish questions. Steve Bruce answered as best he could. 

Thanks Steve for being an honest bloke!

Edited August 4, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I completely disagree with the notion that Bruce is offering any excuses. He is being pragmatic, open and honest. Why? Because that's who he is. 

After reading the whole article, its just another silly interview with the same rubbish questions. Steve Bruce answered as best he could. 

Thanks Steve for being an honest bloke!

But he's not being totally honest. He mentions nothing at all to with his signings, why? 

Hogan was very expensive. John Terry is on big money, yet his hands are tied because of everyone else. 

 

[markavfc40]

30 minutes ago, striker said:

You also don't want to give any squad of players a get out clause for poor performances.

Just as well he hasn't then. Quite the opposite it seems as every player I have seen interviewed is under no illusions that the sole target this season is promotion.

[TRO]

Criticism can always be found in anybody and it gets easier if you don't fancy them overall.

conversely slack can always be cut for anybody you do fancy or like.

I like Steve Bruce so find it easier to see the good in what he does.I don't think he is a pocchetini, but i do think he is a down to earth sensible manager.

i guess its take your pick.

To be fair i never fancied RDM or Remi Garde but i did go out of my way to try and support them and see any good that was feasible.

[TrentVilla]

46 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

However, I do not think for a second that there is any 'better fan' stuff going on with people who have a different opinion. That's just plain wrong and quite offensive to the majority of people on this site.

Well we will have to agree to disagree because I think it's  there. 

It certainly isn't offensive to express my opinion that it is the case, even if it were it certainly wouldn't be to the majority of people on the site as it's not accurate of the majority of people on here. 

Anyway.... back to Bruce....

[TrentVilla]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

Criticism can always be found in anybody and it gets easier if you don't fancy them overall.

conversely slack can always be cut for anybody you do fancy or like.

I like Steve Bruce so find it easier to see the good in what he does.I don't think he is a pocchetini, but i do think he is a down to earth sensible manager.

i guess its take your pick.

To be fair i never fancied RDM or Remi Garde but i did go out of my way to try and support them and see any good that was feasible.

I agree right up until the last.

There seems to be this view that if you are critical of Bruce you are anti Bruce. I don't think it's as simple as that.

I defended Bruce strongly all last season, this summer I've grown a little more critical. 

Yet I have also commended him on the players he has brought in in what appear to be difficult circumstances.

People get far too concerned with people's positions, agendas, narratives or whatever else people want to call them.

Criticism of Bruce doesn't mean you want him gone. It also doesn't mean that you will automatically be critical of everything he says and does.

The absolute last thing this club needs or that I want is another change of manager. I'm desperate for Bruce to succeed for lots of reasons.

That I currently have some question marks about how he sets the side up to play being effective enough doesn't mean I want him to fail. That I don't agree with some of his interviews or that I think he is making excuses ahead of performances doesn't mean I or anyone else doesn't want the performances to be there from tomorrow.

It is possible to be critical of Bruce and be objective, you wouldn't think so from the reactions in this thread when people are critical.

On a related work, niece bit of loan business from Bruce today.

[villabromsgrove]

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I was planning to stay out of this thread until we were a few games in but....

I'm utterly sick of the excuse culture at Villa, it's been present for years now. There is always an excuse but behind all the excuses is pure under performance and if we are to get out of this division it has to stop.

I'm really disappointed in Bruce over the last week, I expect more from our manager.

The club have been up front about the restrictions this summer and I'm sure he knew about them when he spent the money he spent in January.

He could have held that money back for this summer but he gambled on trying to get up last season. Only his signings weren't a success, largely due to his football in my opinion.

Whatever restrictions we have in place this summer the message from him as the leader of the football side of the club should be positive. It should be we have enough, we are going for this.

But just like his football Bruce isn't positive.

Compare and contrast the words of Bruce to those of the skipper he just signed, no hint of excuses from him. Just clear set in stone expectation, Terry demands success.

Bruce, well Bruce sounds like a man hoping for it but getting a few excuses in just in case it isn't forthcoming.

He sounds like a man who fears he could be under pressure early in the season.

Just not what I want to hear on the eve of a new season.

Some on here will think this is negative, well actually it's the opposite. I'm positive, I think we've enough in the squad, it's the manager who isn't positive. He won't be positive in his approach to games and somewhere that is going to have an impact on the dressing room.

He has had a good summer in terms of arrivals, just like January even if he has been some what limited by FFP. Time for Bruce to deliver, I don't want to hear excuses.

I agree with you Trent.

I believe that we have a very decent squad of players. We certainly have enough experience and talent to expect a positive outcome to this season. Definitely play off's and possibly automatic promotion is there to be grasped .... but .... the way Bruce sets up his team on match day doesn't reflect the positive abilities of the players at his disposal. Our defence is tighter, but the link up play between midfield and strikers is still somewhere between basic and non existent and that will cost us.

 We have a manager and a coach with a mindset of stopping the opposition from beating us and hoping to snatch something, rather than setting out to outplay the opposition who in most cases are not quite as good as us. I agree with Trent that this "negative" approach may well cost us again in terms of confidence and results as this season wears on. 

[DCJonah]

16 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Just as well he hasn't then. Quite the opposite it seems as every player I have seen interviewed is under no illusions that the sole target this season is promotion.

I think the target and ambition is high and clear but he has in a way. 

Yes we aimed for promotion but our entire system that we worked on in pre season was ruined because of an injury. 

Yes we wanted promotion but the manager was restricted because of bad decisions by others and we couldn't get that extra quality in. 

I'm dissappointed he's decided to complain in a few interviews in the week before the season kicks off. 

[Demitri_C]

I think he was just having a bit of a moan. If he fails miserably he knows he only has himself to blame and no-one else.

Have to say although we have not spent much, on paper these signings look very impressive. No reason why we are not getting promoted this year. If we fail its down to Bruce no-one else

[Jareth]

Kudos to Bruce for all HIS signings. He's actually turned a profit and using his skills and contacts he has given us for the first time in a very long time, a balanced squad, with talent, youth, experience, mentality, you name it, we have got it. This could not have been done any earlier than this window, so I for one am very happy to see him now get a chance with his squad and go get us promotion. Bruce IN 100%.

[TrentVilla]

4 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

We have a manager and a coach with a mindset of stopping the opposition from beating us and hoping to snatch something, rather than setting out to outplay the opposition who in most cases are not quite as good as us. I agree with Trent that this "negative" approach may well cost us again in terms of confidence and results as this season wears on. 

That is my view/concern.

No doubt we look better at the back, he has done a good job there.

It remains to be seen in midfield once new signings settle and players return especially Kodjia.

But the concerns on the way we play are there presently for me, based on last season and pre season.

Those doubts may well evaporate, I hope they do. Bruce has a great track record of promotion, so he could well be proved right and the doubters wrong let's hope so.

[Adam2003]

I don't think it's any 'better fan' stuff. I've worked in the media and I know how interviews work - far more back and forth then they ever present it in writing and that can mean the interviewee sounds negative - and so I always try to read it in that light. In this one it has clearly gone something like:

 

"Steve, did you think you would be dealing with FFP?" (An inherently negative question probably asked in context of a chat about Neymar moving clubs that day for a world record fee)

 

"I didn't think I would have to be dealing with it as such, but thats the way it is - it's not a problem to me."

 

"Would you say you're enjoying it? You've done well on a tight rein before."

 

"Well I wouldn't say I am enjoying it but..."

 

He has just answered questions. His alternative would have been to say "oh yes I'm enjoying FFP" and that would just have been spun a different way.

 

The clue Hytner is straight-up screwing him over is that claim that he didn't know the situation at the club even though Bruce says he did - and painting it as backtracking when he clairifies he knew exactly what the situation was and is still planning on promotion. Pathetic journalism.

 

And again, I say that as someone with real concerns about Bruce getting us up! But I can't stand how journalists do this.

 

 

[Adam2003]

To add, while I don't think he has been at all negative in that interview, I would certainly like us to be a bit less negative on the pitch this season than last! I hope last season was just stopping the rot. I think we can do this - we just need to go out and play...

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I agree right up until the last.

There seems to be this view that if you are critical of Bruce you are anti Bruce. I don't think it's as simple as that.

I defended Bruce strongly all last season, this summer I've grown a little more critical. 

Yet I have also commended him on the players he has brought in in what appear to be difficult circumstances.

People get far too concerned with people's positions, agendas, narratives or whatever else people want to call them.

Criticism of Bruce doesn't mean you want him gone. It also doesn't mean that you will automatically be critical of everything he says and does.

The absolute last thing this club needs or that I want is another change of manager. I'm desperate for Bruce to succeed for lots of reasons.

That I currently have some question marks about how he sets the side up to play being effective enough doesn't mean I want him to fail. That I don't agree with some of his interviews or that I think he is making excuses ahead of performances doesn't mean I or anyone else doesn't want the performances to be there from tomorrow.

It is possible to be critical of Bruce and be objective, you wouldn't think so from the reactions in this thread when people are critical.

On a related work, niece bit of loan business from Bruce today.

Yes, very impressive bit of business.

i get all that Trent and accept your reasoning.....of course he is not beyond reproach.

I just cast my mind back to when Ron Saunders and Graham Taylor was rebuilding a ship with a hole in it......in both cases we were in the lower league and had to FIGHT our way back......The respective managers had to permutate many transfers before they found their winning formula trying to improve along the way.

I was never in favour of Grahams lamp lighter centre forwards, but it was his way and i just left him to it.

i just don't remember the level of criticism from sections of the fans of thos guys , like Steve Bruce seems to attract.....maybe because there was no social media or internet forums in those days.

but thanks for your response.....very good as usual.

[Villarocker]

43 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

That is my view/concern.

No doubt we look better at the back, he has done a good job there.

It remains to be seen in midfield once new signings settle and players return especially Kodjia.

But the concerns on the way we play are there presently for me, based on last season and pre season.

Those doubts may well evaporate, I hope they do. Bruce has a great track record of promotion, so he could well be proved right and the doubters wrong let's hope so.

This is basically where I am at with the manager. I neither like or dislike him well, in fact, I am probably more prone to liking him to be fair but, I just don't see anything from us that makes me think he is the man to take us up. The area of the pitch that concerned me was the final third where we practically looked clueless last season unless Kodjia played. Right now, I am fearing any games that he misses. Only time will tell if Bruce and his coaches have managed to address that in pre-season and, with Kodjia missing still, we will soon find out if they have succeeded.

[TrentVilla]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes, very impressive bit of business.

i get all that Trent and accept your reasoning.....of course he is not beyond reproach.

I just cast my mind back to when Ron Saunders and Graham Taylor was rebuilding a ship with a hole in it......in both cases we were in the lower league and had to FIGHT our way back......The respective managers had to permutate many transfers before they found their winning formula trying to improve along the way.

I was never in favour of Grahams lamp lighter centre forwards, but it was his way and i just left him to it.

i just don't remember the level of criticism from sections of the fans of thos guys , like Steve Bruce seems to attract.....maybe because there was no social media or internet forums in those days.

but thanks for your response.....very good as usual.

Neither would I expect it to be, its just nice to be able to debate with people without the other stuff which I commented on previously.

Sadly I can't comment on Saunders and Taylor is hard as I was a kid, I generally thought he was a genius and loved the guy despite the big men up top. I lacked any kind of real analytical perspective and had little to compare him to as I started going in 86. I would though suggest that Taylor didn't need long at all to have us winning. I would also add that he breathed life and expectation back into the club, he demanded it. 

On the criticism thing, I think there are a few factors. Football and football fans are both different now, things are more immediate or expected to be. As you say, there is social media plus every interview is so very accessible and there are so many more of them. I also think the fact we've had 10 years of rubbish is a big factor as well, patience is or has worn thin, I think that is a huge factor.

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

That is my view/concern.

No doubt we look better at the back, he has done a good job there.

It remains to be seen in midfield once new signings settle and players return especially Kodjia.

But the concerns on the way we play are there presently for me, based on last season and pre season.

Those doubts may well evaporate, I hope they do. Bruce has a great track record of promotion, so he could well be proved right and the doubters wrong let's hope so.

What you see, i have no reason to argue with ,but my stance is,like your last line it will change.....Steve Bruce is no fool, he knows we need goals, but in such a massive rebuild first things first.....He had already publically challenged the strikers to deliver.

I have never felt a need to argue with the view of Steve Bruce being negative, just felt the need to say, good managers start building from the back.....the job is still not complete and injuries are not helping to key players....i have felt its his view of necessity as opposed to choice.....i guess there is another debate.

I think most of the disagreements have been via whats on show and what some fans can see / feel is coming.

we will be ok.....but as the old saying goes it takes time.

ps i guess the next challenge will be changing all the loan and one year deals, but we will cross that fence when we get promotion.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Neither would I expect it to be, its just nice to be able to debate with people without the other stuff which I commented on previously.

Sadly I can't comment on Saunders and Taylor is hard as I was a kid, I generally thought he was a genius and loved the guy despite the big men up top. I lacked any kind of real analytical perspective and had little to compare him to as I started going in 86. I would though suggest that Taylor didn't need long at all to have us winning. I would also add that he breathed life and expectation back into the club, he demanded it. 

On the criticism thing, I think there are a few factors. Football and football fans are both different now, things are more immediate or expected to be. As you say, there is social media plus every interview is so very accessible and there are so many more of them. I also think the fact we've had 10 years of rubbish is a big factor as well, patience is or has worn thin, I think that is a huge factor.

Bang on

[DCJonah]

27 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I don't think it's any 'better fan' stuff. I've worked in the media and I know how interviews work - far more back and forth then they ever present it in writing and that can mean the interviewee sounds negative - and so I always try to read it in that light. In this one it has clearly gone something like:

 

"Steve, did you think you would be dealing with FFP?" (An inherently negative question probably asked in context of a chat about Neymar moving clubs that day for a world record fee)

 

"I didn't think I would have to be dealing with it as such, but thats the way it is - it's not a problem to me."

 

"Would you say you're enjoying it? You've done well on a tight rein before."

 

"Well I wouldn't say I am enjoying it but..."

 

He has just answered questions. His alternative would have been to say "oh yes I'm enjoying FFP" and that would just have been spun a different way.

 

The clue Hytner is straight-up screwing him over is that claim that he didn't know the situation at the club even though Bruce says he did - and painting it as backtracking when he clairifies he knew exactly what the situation was and is still planning on promotion. Pathetic journalism.

 

And again, I say that as someone with real concerns about Bruce getting us up! But I can't stand how journalists do this.

 

 

I don't think he's been screwed over. He's not a rookie manager doing his first interview. This man was captain of Manchester united, been a premier league manager for years and was in the running for the England job. I'm sure Bruce knows how a story might be presented by the answers he provides. 

This interview isn't the only one where he's mentioned FFP as well. I think Bruce is well aware of the messages he's putting out there. A bit like Lambert and Sherwood did when the pressure really started to build, trying to control the narrative and the image for if it all goes wrong. 

I'd have liked much more confidence from him in the week leading up to our first game. He's just pulled off another decent signing adding to what should be one of the best squads in the division.