DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, villan_007 said: No one is....but go on then let's make it 3 games for fun. Both playoff semis and the final. Didn't score one goal. You'd think the messiah would conjurer up a sexy footy fest out of 3 games? For me I absolutely applaud them for going up. Incredible for them. But they scrapped through by the skin of their teeth. And I'd take that for us. How we do it doesn't concern me. You say the Messiah like it's a piss take. I don't get it. Surely everyone who has praised Wagner has been proven right. He's just taken Huddersfield into the premier league on a budget of around £3 million. Who has commented on Wagner based purely on the football they play? I've never read someone mention him without mentioning the amazing results he's achieved this season. You seem to ignore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 hours ago, TRO said: On the contrary...I'm giving you examples of factors that could be at play......other than Steve Bruce being the fault of everything we currently see on display. And that had nothing to do with the point I was making. Like I said you're creating an argument I wasn't having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Who has commented on Wagner based purely on the football they play? Based on my reading of this thread (admittedly, sometimes I read it with my head in my hands or doing palmface) almost everyone. Just as a refresher, he has a progressive football style unlike Bruce, and has a clear footballing philosophy, again, unlike Bruce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Based on my reading of this thread (admittedly, sometimes I read it with my head in my hands or doing palmface) almost everyone. Just as a refresher, he has a progressive football style unlike Bruce, and has a clear footballing philosophy, again, unlike Bruce. But no one would be saying these things if the results were shit and they were near the bottom half of the table. Those things you've mentioned look to be the case because they've been consistently getting results this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Based on my reading of this thread (admittedly, sometimes I read it with my head in my hands or doing palmface) almost everyone. Just as a refresher, he has a progressive football style unlike Bruce, and has a clear footballing philosophy, again, unlike Bruce. For me the "progressive" part that i like with Wagner (admittedly from things I've read so it could all be false) is the way he works as manager. From team building in preseason to how meticulous and detailed he is with tactics and details around the team. He has a clear tactic, not the most elaborate one, but the players are all comfortable in it to the point that the fringe players can come in if need be without much effecting the team performance. The big difference I see when comparing our football with Huddersfield's is that all their players seem to know what to do with the ball and without the ball. They have a worked in system, clear roles and press as a team. Some will undoubtedly say that is all down to time, but it's just not that simple IMO As for progressive football, I'm not sure what that is. But I guess the 4-1-5 we played under Di Matteo was pretty progressive Edited May 31, 2017 by sne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 59 minutes ago, sne said: For me the "progressive" part that i like with Wagner (admittedly from things I've read so it could all be false) is the way he works as manager. From team building in preseason to how meticulous and detailed he is with tactics and details around the team. He has a clear tactic, not the most elaborate one, but the players are all comfortable in it to the point that the fringe players can come in if need be without much effecting the team performance. The big difference I see when comparing our football with Huddersfield's is that all their players seem to know what to do with the ball and without the ball. They have a worked in system, clear roles and press as a team. Some will undoubtedly say that is all down to time, but it's just not that simple IMO As for progressive football, I'm not sure what that is. But I guess the 4-1-5 we played under Di Matteo was pretty progressive Spot on, hardly a team of quality players from this level, they have a 35 year old Dean Whitehead in the middle, players like Hogg, Sean Scannell, Wells up front only scored 10 league goals but at least 2 or 3 of their forward players managed double figures. They are just better organised and aggressive. We really need to take note. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted May 31, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2017 If someone were to ask me if i preferred the first 12 games of the season or the last 36 - despite myself, id have to say the first 12. We created loads of chances in those games only to be undone by lapses in concentration. I dont think rdm was a good choice, but i do think had rdm been given the same treatment as sb then we would have finished in roughly the same position and have been a hell of a lot more exciting to watch. For me rdm and sb are opposite ends of the spectrum one attacking and one defensive. We need something in the middle. A lot of people have been saying that the manager roundabout and team overhauls are ruining the club. And this is true. But all it takes is for the person in charge to choose the type of football they want us to play and hire personel that fit that identity. The reason our manager changes have done so much damage is because each manager we hire is completely different to the last. Perhaps its time the higher ups stamp an identity on what they want avfc to be and bring in people who fit this rather than saying "he was good for club x, lets buy him and see what happens" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, DCJonah said: But no one would be saying these things if the results were shit and they were near the bottom half of the table. Those things you've mentioned look to be the case because they've been consistently getting results this season. Huddersfield were certainly not consistent last season. They had two very good spells interspersed with two rather mediocre/poor spells. If you look at their sequence of results, it went as follows: 1st 11 matches - 25/33 points (10/33) next 8 matches - 5/24 points (15/24) next 12 matches - 31/36 points (11/36) last 15 matches- 20/45 points (26/45) I've put Villa's equivalent performance in brackets for interest. As ever in the Championship, you go through rocky spells, you get back on track. You don't immediately start screaming for the manager to be sacked during the rocky patches. Or at least you don't if you're Huddersfield fans. Huddersfield had a stonking start to the season and an excellent spell from December - February. It was those two spells that carried them through to the playoffs despite falling away badly at other times. Villa had a terrible start to the season courtesy RDM, improved significantly when Bruce arrived, had a terrible spell in early 2017 and then recovered better towards the end of the season. Huddersfield have earned their season in the premier league. Villa now need to work on making those bad spells less bad and the good spells better and we are not so far off being able to wave at Huddersfield as they return to the Championship next season while we go up. Edited May 31, 2017 by briny_ear 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I dont want to see past the fact that. Wagner did the job of getting Hudds up, so no-one at their club is complaining. Bruce didnt get the job done, so fans of AVFC are complaining. perfectly obvious and a normal & acceptable reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Huddersfield were certainly not consistent last season. They had two very good spells interspersed with two rather mediocre/poor spells. If you look at their sequence of results, it went as follows: 1st 11 matches - 25/33 points (10/33) next 8 matches - 5/24 points (15/24) next 12 matches - 31/36 points (11/34) last 15 matches- 20/45 points (26/45) I've put Villa's equivalent performance in brackets for interest. As ever in the Championship, you go through rocky spells, you get back on track. You don't immediately start screaming for the manager to be sacked during the rocky patches. Or at least you don't if you're Huddersfield fans. Huddersfield had a stonking start to the season and an excellent spell from December - February. It was those two spells that carried them through to the playoffs despite falling away badly at other times. Villa had a terrible start to the season courtesy RDM, improved significantly when Bruce arrived, had a terrible spell in early 2017 and then recovered better towards the end of the season. Huddersfield have earned their season in the premier league. Villa now need to work on making those bad spells less bad and the good spells better and we are not so far off being able to wave at Huddersfield as they return to the Championship next season while we go up. ......and if they do come down, they may be waving a hello again at us if we are still here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, flashingqwerty said: If someone were to ask me if i preferred the first 12 games of the season or the last 36 - despite myself, id have to say the first 12. If you have a look at what I've just posted above, you can see just how disastrous that opening spell was for our promotion hopes. It meant the possibility of staging a strong winning run to get back into the promotion places was so much reduced. Particularly because the risk was then increased massively by importing a new manager and several new players So with all due respect to your enjoyment of RDM's football - which I always found frustratingly soft - I would much preferred us to have been winning, no matter how boring or negative. Put down a marker, then you can try the fancy stuff. That's my footballing philosophy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: I dont want to see past the fact that. Wagner did the job of getting Hudds up, so no-one at their club is complaining. Bruce didnt get the job done, so fans of AVFC are complaining. perfectly obvious and a normal & acceptable reaction. Nor did they complain last season when he nearly relegated them. Nor did they complain in October/ November when he managed 5 points from 8 games. Perhaps they are just more polite up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 41 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Huddersfield were certainly not consistent last season. They had two very good spells interspersed with two rather mediocre/poor spells. If you look at their sequence of results, it went as follows: 1st 11 matches - 25/33 points (10/33) next 8 matches - 5/24 points (15/24) next 12 matches - 31/36 points (11/34) last 15 matches- 20/45 points (26/45) I've put Villa's equivalent performance in brackets for interest. As ever in the Championship, you go through rocky spells, you get back on track. You don't immediately start screaming for the manager to be sacked during the rocky patches. Or at least you don't if you're Huddersfield fans. Huddersfield had a stonking start to the season and an excellent spell from December - February. It was those two spells that carried them through to the playoffs despite falling away badly at other times. Villa had a terrible start to the season courtesy RDM, improved significantly when Bruce arrived, had a terrible spell in early 2017 and then recovered better towards the end of the season. Huddersfield have earned their season in the premier league. Villa now need to work on making those bad spells less bad and the good spells better and we are not so far off being able to wave at Huddersfield as they return to the Championship next season while we go up. And you continue to ignore that throughout his time there he was meeting the expectations of fans and the board. So why would they call for him to go? We need to be promoted. Of course there's going to be fans unhappy with abysmal football and bottom half finish. There's no real sign that we could get promoted next season from what he's produced with a lot of money and an already decent championship squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Nor did they complain last season when he nearly relegated them. Nor did they complain in October/ November when he managed 5 points from 8 games. Perhaps they are just more polite up there. Or perhaps the expectations of Huddersfield's fans are a lot lower than ours and he was meeting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 8Huddersfield conceded 10 more than us this season. Their goal difference was worse than ours. They lost by 3 or more goals on 4 occasions. They didn't score a goal in the entire playoffs. They lost 9-1 on aggregate to Fulham! If that's what a progressive manager means, I'd rather stick with Bruce. Seriously, looking at some of their results, our supporters would be calling for his head if he was here, despite the style of football he was playing. I don't particularly like the comparison to Huddersfield to be honest. Yes they went up, but they've massively overachieved in doing so imo. I can't help but think they could be in for a massive shock next season. The jury is still out on the Wagner hype for me. I don't know to what extent this season was a Leicester-esque outlier, or the fact that Wagner is the best manager in the league. At the moment I'm leaning towards the former. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Godders said: 8Huddersfield conceded 10 more than us this season. Their goal difference was worse than ours. They lost by 3 or more goals on 4 occasions. They didn't score a goal in the entire playoffs. They lost 9-1 on aggregate to Fulham! If that's what a progressive manager means, I'd rather stick with Bruce. Seriously, looking at some of their results, our supporters would be calling for his head if he was here, despite the style of football he was playing. I don't particularly like the comparison to Huddersfield to be honest. Yes they went up, but they've massively overachieved in doing so imo. I can't help but think they could be in for a massive shock next season. The jury is still out on the Wagner hype for me. I don't know to what extent this season was a Leicester-esque outlier, or the fact that Wagner is the best manager in the league. At the moment I'm leaning towards the former. So you think fans would be calling for him to be sacked while sat in the top 5 most of the season and get promoted after spending around £3 million? Yeah that's utter rubbish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, DCJonah said: So you think fans would be calling for him to be sacked while sat in the top 5 most of the season and get promoted after spending around £3 million? Yeah that's utter rubbish. Sorry, should have said some of our supporters, but yes, I genuinely do. Some of our supporters were calling for Bruce's head during our late season surge because, despite winning games, we weren't playing nice football. I can't see some idely standing by if we lose 4-0 to Bristol City, or 5-0 to Fulham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alakagom Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 That's because we were winning games as flukey as they come, and what happened when our luck run out? We went to shit and the promotion surge stopped in tracks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Alakagom said: That's because we were winning games as flukey as they come, and what happened when our luck run out? We went to shit and the promotion surge stopped in tracks. Exactly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 53 minutes ago, DCJonah said: So you think fans would be calling for him to be sacked while sat in the top 5 most of the season and get promoted after spending around £3 million? Yeah that's utter rubbish. exactly.. he spent 3 million. Not 30+ like we did. What he did is remarkable. Goal differential or not. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts