Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Av I know where you are coming from.....but IMO its too early for our demise. Mate i respect your opinion i really do. But your opinion that Bruce will get it right, seems to be based more on faith than evidence. Because imo there hasn't been any signs of improvement from the day he walked in. And that is after signing a brand new midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, TRO said: well Dave, It won't surprise you to say that I most emphatically disagree. I agree the football has been shite, so far......but where we differ is, I genuinely believe it will change. Over the course of his career in my opinion he has been dull , uninspiring and as I've said pretty bang average - 4 promotions in 20 years I believe is his sum total - does this really inspire you? i'm not one for waiting for us to limp over the line - then get rid after a bad start back in the prem - I want a manager who can restablish us a premier league club and then have the audacity to take the club back to its rightful place - something I do not believe Bruce can achieve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Dave J said: But TRO would you not agree there should be some signs of improvement ? Bruce is playing with the hand brake well and truly engaged and quite frankly he does not inspire me in anyway that change is on the horizon tbh - for me he just oozes " bang average " and this is not good enough for Aston Villa imo Dave. Have you lost all sense of memory.....just joking mate We won 4 games in 18 months.....There is no words available to me to describe how desperate that was.....this wasn't a car crash, it was a motorway pile up. Just put the whole thing in to some kind of perspective.....this was never going to be a quick fix, even with the right manager. He had to stop us haemorraging goals at will.....Style and all those things was way down the list or priorities. He repaired the soft underbelly, but we were way from fixed....he had to regain confidence in the players by not capitulating every time their goal keeper took a goal kick, thats how desperate it was. We won 3 games in the prem before we dropped, half of us had given up half way through the season.....It really was that bad Dave, I know pain is hard to remember, but we were, well and truly BROKEN. The handbrake may be well and truly on, because we are still in WORK IN PROGRESS.......Confidence is not just restored by a flick of a switch. We beat some of the top of the table teams before the season ended and denied the second placed team the title, so how anyone can say we have not improved is beyond me. We have scrapped for our improvement and that in itself is a measure of improvement by removing the "soft under belly".......major improvement that for me. We will be ok, so long as the impatience does not get the better of us. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, av1 said: Mate i respect your opinion i really do. But your opinion that Bruce will get it right, seems to be based more on faith than evidence. Because imo there hasn't been any signs of improvement from the day he walked in. And that is after signing a brand new midfield. Av we can only go by gut feel.....all of us. Nobody is anymore sure than the next man The midfield is not yet right but that may be by other parts of the team not letting it be. we will see. Edited May 28, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Dave J said: Over the course of his career in my opinion he has been dull , uninspiring and as I've said pretty bang average - 4 promotions in 20 years I believe is his sum total - does this really inspire you? i'm not one for waiting for us to limp over the line - then get rid after a bad start back in the prem - I want a manager who can restablish us a premier league club and then have the audacity to take the club back to its rightful place - something I do not believe Bruce can achieve Diego Simone says he wants to stay with Athletico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, TRO said: Dave. Have you lost all sense of memory.....just joking mate We won 4 games in 18 months.....There is no words available to me to describe how desperate that was.....this wasn't a car crash, it was a motorway pile up. Just put the whole thing in to some kind of perspective.....this was never going to be a quick fix, even with the right manager. He had to stop us haemorraging goals at will.....Style and all those things was way down the list or priorities. He repaired the soft underbelly, but we were way from fixed....he had to regain confidence in the players by not capitulating every time their goal keeper took a goal kick, thats how desperate it was. We won 3 games in the prem before we dropped, half of us had given up half way through the season.....It really was that bad Dave, I know pain is hard to remember, but we were, well and truly BROKEN. The handbrake may be well and truly on, because we are still in WORK IN PROGRESS.......Confidence is not just restored by a flick of a switch. We beat some of the top of the table teams before the season ended and denied the second placed team the title, so how anyone can say we have not improved is beyond me. We have scrapped for our improvement and that in itself is a measure of improvement by removing the "soft under belly".......major improvement that for me. We will be ok, so long as the impatience does not get the better of us. Given his outlay and final position I'm not sure this can be qualified as improvement - a massive disappointment is more my take on the matter- coupled with the negative fayre on display - I'm afraid I have very little faith in his ability to deliver either a promotion winning side or one that is capable of getting fans on the edge of their seats. he's way to dull and uninspiring for my liking - fortune favours the brave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: You always talk sense No he doesnt :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: All I'm alluding to is sometimes it takes players time to settle, sometimes it doesn't. You can't make generalisations either way. That is very true Stevo, but equally you have to watch carefully the personna of the players. Andy Gray in question was 19 when he joined us and took the place by storm on the pitch......straight from the off. He was brave, self confident and was driven beyond all sense of reasoning.....If you were in his company is was obvious from the off.....it didn't take professional coaches to see this it was obvious. He was taking sports forums at 19/20 with Tony Butler, totally in control and articulate to boot. We signed a " Man" at 19 and that is very much what we need to be looking out for in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dave J said: Given his outlay and final position I'm not sure this can be qualified as improvement - a massive disappointment is more my take on the matter- coupled with the negative fayre on display - I'm afraid I have very little faith in his ability to deliver either a promotion winning side or one that is capable of getting fans on the edge of their seats. he's way to dull and uninspiring for my liking - fortune favours the brave are you teasing me with my own VT signature. Its too early Dave sorry.....and oh! the money spent only releases players, does not guarantee success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: are you teasing me with my own VT signature. Its too early Dave sorry.....and oh! the money spent only releases players, does not guarantee success. I really don't believe it is to early TRO I have seen enough of Steve Bruce over the years to form the opinion that he is no more than bang average - rated him as a player - think he's a genuine guy - proper football man agreed - but totally bang average and not the man to take us forward imo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: No he doesnt :-/ yes he does cut this pantomine out GH Edited May 28, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, briny_ear said: But we were suckers for that last minute equalising goal - hence RDM's rather inglorious record of 0.9 points per game. Hence also Bruce's first two comments when he took over: a) squad not fit b ) no resilience. Tell you what, man, if we'd stuck with RDM, we would be having a very different discussion now about the manager's future and the club's prospects next season. Absolutely. RDM did a terrible job. So terrible that we don't have to invent this myth that Bruce made us harder to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 28, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: That is very true Stevo, but equally you have to watch carefully the personna of the players. Andy Gray in question was 19 when he joined us and took the place by storm on the pitch......straight from the off. He was brave, self confident and was driven beyond all sense of reasoning.....If you were in his company is was obvious from the off.....it didn't take professional coaches to see this it was obvious. He was taking sports forums at 19/20 with Tony Butler, totally in control and articulate to boot. We signed a " Man" at 19 and that is very much what we need to be looking out for in the future. And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. "oh Andy Gray was amazing at 19, so why isn't this 19 year old amazing?" Everyone is different. Thierry Henry was average at 19. Didier Drogba was crap at 19. Yes some players are amazing when they're young. Some players aren't. Just because we sign a player and they're not MOTM every week in their first 6 months doesn't mean they're a write off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Didnt think you needed me to explain. pretty obvious really Football -> money -> bigger move ->............. or dont be a footballer I really must tell you Your haiku doesn't work Oops sorry. Wrong thread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 12 hours ago, DCJonah said: Absolutely. RDM did a terrible job. So terrible that we don't have to invent this myth that Bruce made us harder to beat. Exactly, despite looking completely clueless towards the end of his tenure, we actually lost 4 under RDM. 14 under Bruce, that isn't harder to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 RDM got shit results but got in & out a lot of players, we needed that and maybe his "name" helped us. Bruce stopped the rot but couldnt kick us on, some decisions cost us the playoffs and for that he cant be forgiven. The bigger picture is simply this. We're in the Ch and need a manager to get us out. Blind faith in Bruce achieving that is simply delusional. We still have ghosts of our past. Sloppy goals, bad possesion, bad passing, no coherant play. The ONLY solution is player/coaches/manager turnover untill ALL our downfalls are put aside. As much as Richards 50+ pw is holding us back, so is our lack of cohesion in the team. The ones that cant hack it simply need to go That list starts with Richards, Gaby, SJ, Bunn, Hutton, Elphick, Bacuna, Kozak, Gardner, Calderwood, Bruce and may even have to continue through to the board Round and Wyness. We wont get promoted with Bruce in charge, and the managers position is the easiest to change. With that change comes a (hopefully) different style of play and leadership for the players & coaches, the leaving out of substandard players and a new lease of life. You cant get someone to change their habits on whim or hope. But you can change a someone in the hope that the habits are different. We need something different, so we need a change. The more we change the more chance we have cos what is now isnt working and no hope or blind faith will change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted May 29, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: RDM got shit results but got in & out a lot of players, we needed that and maybe his "name" helped us. Bruce stopped the rot but couldnt kick us on, some decisions cost us the playoffs and for that he cant be forgiven. The bigger picture is simply this. We're in the Ch and need a manager to get us out. Blind faith in Bruce achieving that is simply delusional. We still have ghosts of our past. Sloppy goals, bad possesion, bad passing, no coherant play. The ONLY solution is player/coaches/manager turnover untill ALL our downfalls are put aside. As much as Richards 50+ pw is holding us back, so is our lack of cohesion in the team. The ones that cant hack it simply need to go That list starts with Richards, Gaby, SJ, Bunn, Hutton, Elphick, Bacuna, Kozak, Gardner, Calderwood, Bruce and may even have to continue through to the board Round and Wyness. We wont get promoted with Bruce in charge, and the managers position is the easiest to change. With that change comes a (hopefully) different style of play and leadership for the players & coaches, the leaving out of substandard players and a new lease of life. You cant get someone to change their habits on whim or hope. But you can change a someone in the hope that the habits are different. We need something different, so we need a change. The more we change the more chance we have cos what is now isnt working and no hope or blind faith will change that I hope you're wrong and have blind faith that you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: I hope you're wrong and have blind faith that you are I have ultimate faith in you sending £10 to VT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted May 29, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: I have mis-placed faith in you sending £10 to VT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 12 hours ago, Stevo985 said: And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. "oh Andy Gray was amazing at 19, so why isn't this 19 year old amazing?" Everyone is different. Thierry Henry was average at 19. Didier Drogba was crap at 19. Yes some players are amazing when they're young. Some players aren't. Just because we sign a player and they're not MOTM every week in their first 6 months doesn't mean they're a write off. That is not what is being said.....but I agree with that. Yes there is always exceptions to every rule.....but a team can help itself by spotting the signs early. I accept Thierry and Didier were 22 & 24 respectively before they started to do the damage, but to say they were crap is hard to see. But.....Brian Little, Gary Shaw also fits in to the early signs category, so did Trevor Francis and Alan Shearer.....so its not just a one-off. Look, I accept your point they all develop at different intervals .....David Platt was late as you say. However, I think a players character says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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