Steve Bruce

[dn1982]

On 25/05/2017 at 23:44, Jareth said:

It would be a great deal bigger if we had to replace our manager. I'm glad that for once, we can finally spend a full summer to look at filling four first team positions and aside from selling off the dross, there will be no distractions and a settled AVFC manager and squad can get their heads down and prepare for the season ahead. Just my humble opinion but it's complete madness to be wanting all change, yet again, I mean talk about shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly. 

I don't think I've said I wanted rid of Bruce I pointed in the thread that there's plenty of reasons why people are worried about him. In my humble opinion if you've watched the dross he's served up you'd be nuts to have complete faith. Changing a manager in the season does restrict them but giving a manager a full preseason they've got no excuses I'm sure that why no one moans about RDM getting sacked when in reality the only thing Bruce changed initially was us conceding in the final 10 mins. The only reason I support Bruce is I think he deserves a full pre season and I've said I think he'll get us up but now is the best time to change a manager if you are going to. The 2 managers in the Play Off Final have both had 1 preseason to get their ideas across. Wagner came in in the Autumn and didn't do much all that year so hopefully Bruce can emulate him but with promotion. 

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

Bruce stopped the rot but couldnt kick us on,

 

 

Couldn't kick us on? you are talking like Bruce has been here for a couple of years not 3/4 of a season.

I got to be honest I only dip my toe in and out of this thread now as nothing is going on. No new signings to judge, no results to judge. Bruce will be here at the start of next season that is certain.

My overall view I guess like the rest of us was made at the end of last season. That was that the manager inherited a mess. This we spent a load of money over the summer and everything should have been rosy doesn't wash. It assumes the money was well spent and in a number of cases it wasn't so Bruce inherited a side with one win in 12 games, including a cup game against Luton, inherits a club with no away win for 14 months, 4 home wins in 18 months. He inherited a club ingrained with a losing mentality.

In the 7 months of last season he was here he stopped the rot. Stopped the going backwards. Took a club who with 10 points from 11 games was heading for a 41 point season, which would have meant 23rd place, and took it to 62 points. Not for one second going to suggest that is a great feat or even deserves praise but for the first time in years the backwards trajectory was stopped and that can't be under played.

Of course that is me using bare facts. The style of football under Bruce wasn't good and that is an area that needs to be improved dramatically. I do think the huge turnrover in players both over the summer and in January had a part to play there though. Looking at the one window he has had I think he did well. Lansbury, Bree, Hourihane at around 7 mill combined is very good business, Taylor for Ayew and a few quid our way again looks good business. The jury is still out on Hogan but I see enough in him to think that IF he can stay injury free there is a very good forward there.

The time to see if he can kick us on wasn't last season. That times comes from August 5th. He is, due to his time here last season, now starting from a stable footing, a decent foundation. Whilst last season made for painful viewing at times it was a necessary tool in turning this club around.  Bruce now needs to add a handful of players over the summer, decide on a formation and stick with it and then with the club now facing forwards for the first time in years he needs to hit the ground running. I think he/we will.

Edited May 29, 2017 by markavfc40

[Guest av1]

@markavfc40

I agree will some of that. But as was touched on on the previous page, RDM oversaw a bigger turnover of players, many of whom had threw the towel in after relegation. So it could be argued that he inherited a bigger mess than Bruce, yet no one thought he deserved more time. 

As for a decent foundation to work on. We currently don't have a keeper, and it appears Bruce's first choice is a bloke that looks average at best.

Our defence looks like an absolute shambles unless the midfield is sat directly infront of it. His january signings (taylor aside) look completely lost due to playing out of position (in the case of Lansbury and Hourihane), and islotated (in the case of Hogan)

And his tactics of 'hope kodjia does something special' is out the window for bit due to injury. 

I'm struggling to see anything other than blind optimism for next season. He might sign another couple of players to sit infront of the defence, maybe another forward player that will quickly look isolated due to a lack of support. Nothing will change. 

I've said before and I'll say again. Too much is made of the "problems" Bruce walked into to. 95% of Championship managers would crawl over broken glass to inherit the "mess" Bruce has to deal with.

Bruce is the manager of the biggest club in the division, with arguably the best owner in the division, undoubtedly be biggest budget (by far). 

He also has many of the leagues better players.

Chester

Bree

Taylor

Lansbury

Hurihane

Adomah

Grealish 

Hogan

Kodjia  

I don't particularly care that he hasn't had a full season. With all those cards in his favour, playing with 10 men behind the ball against teams like Burton, Barnsley, Ipswich etc, is simply unacceptable. 

And people still claim he needs more time. He was here for 35 games, and with all that talent, we defended our way to 13th, behind the likes of Cardiff. Who incidentally are a bigger circus than we were. It didn't seem to bother Warnock. 

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

 

Couldn't kick us on? you are talking like Bruce has been here for a couple of years not 3/4 of a season.

I got to be honest I only dip my toe in and out of this thread now as nothing is going on. No new signings to judge, no results to judge. Bruce will be here at the start of next season that is certain.

My overall view I guess like the rest of us was made at the end of last season. That was that the manager inherited a mess. This we spent a load of money over the summer and everything should have been rosy doesn't wash. It assumes the money was well spent and in a number of cases it wasn't so Bruce inherited a side with one win in 12 games, including a cup game against Luton, inherits a club with no away win for 14 months, 4 home wins in 18 months. He inherited a club ingrained with a losing mentality.

In the 7 months of last season he was here he stopped the rot. Stopped the going backwards. Took a club who with 10 points from 11 games was heading for a 41 point season, which would have meant 23rd place, and took it to 62 points. Not for one second going to suggest that is a great feat or even deserves praise but for the first time in years the backwards trajectory was stopped and that can't be under played.

Of course that is me using bare facts. The style of football under Bruce wasn't good and that is an area that needs to be improved dramatically. I do think the huge turnrover in players both over the summer and in January had a part to play there though. Looking at the one window he has had I think he did well. Lansbury, Bree, Hourihane at around 7 mill combined is very good business, Taylor for Ayew and a few quid our way again looks good business. The jury is still out on Hogan but I see enough in him to think that IF he can sty injury free there is a very good forward there.

The time to see if he can kick us on wasn't last season. That times comes from August 5th. He is, due to his time here last season, now starting from a stable footing, a decent foundation. Whilst last season made for painful viewing at times it was a necessary tool in turning this club around.  Bruce now needs to add a handful of players over the summer, decide on a formation and stick with it and then with the club now facing forwards for the first time in years he needs to hit the ground running. I think he/we will.

I guess i can't understand.....what so many others don't appreciate with that resume.

[Lerner's Driver]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

RDM got shit results but got in & out a lot of players, we needed that and maybe his "name" helped us. Bruce stopped the rot but couldnt kick us on, some decisions cost us the playoffs and for that he cant be forgiven. The bigger picture is simply this.

We're in the Ch and need a manager to get us out. Blind faith in Bruce achieving that is simply delusional. We still have ghosts of our past. Sloppy goals, bad possesion, bad passing, no coherant play.

The ONLY solution is player/coaches/manager turnover untill ALL our downfalls are put aside.

As much as Richards 50+ pw is holding us back, so is our lack of cohesion in the team. The ones that cant hack it simply need to go

That list starts with Richards, Gaby, SJ, Bunn, Hutton, Elphick, Bacuna, Kozak, Gardner, Calderwood, Bruce and may even have to continue through to the board Round and Wyness.

We wont get promoted with Bruce in charge, and the managers position is the easiest to change. With that change comes a (hopefully) different style of play and leadership for the players & coaches, the leaving out of substandard players and a new lease of life.

You cant get someone to change their habits on whim or hope.

But you can change a someone in the hope that the habits are different.

We need something different, so we need a change. The more we change the more chance we have cos what is now isnt working and no hope or blind faith will change that

You've gone from 'change Bruce', to change everything and everyone. Do you realise how absurd that sounds? There isn't a team in professional football who have done that and been successful. Any chance you might stop bleating on for a while?

[Grasshopper]

51 minutes ago, av1 said:

@markavfc40

I agree will some of that. But as was touched on on the previous page, RDM oversaw a bigger turnover of players, many of whom had threw the towel in after relegation. So it could be argued that he inherited a bigger mess than Bruce, yet no one thought he deserved more time. 

As for a decent foundation to work on. We currently don't have a keeper, and it appears Bruce's first choice is a bloke that looks average at best.

Our defence looks like an absolute shambles unless the midfield is sat directly infront of it. His january signings (taylor aside) look completely lost due to playing out of position (in the case of Lansbury and Hourihane), and islotated (in the case of Hogan)

And his tactics of 'hope kodjia does something special' is out the window for bit due to injury. 

I'm struggling to see anything other than blind optimism for next season. He might sign another couple of players to sit infront of the defence, maybe another forward player that will quickly look isolated due to a lack of support. Nothing will change. 

I've said before and I'll say again. Too much is made of the "problems" Bruce walked into to. 95% of Championship managers would crawl over broken glass to inherit the "mess" Bruce has to deal with.

Bruce is the manager of the biggest club in the division, with arguably the best owner in the division, undoubtedly be biggest budget (by far). 

He also has many of the leagues better players.

Chester

Bree

Taylor

Lansbury

Hurihane

Adomah

Grealish 

Hogan

Kodjia  

I don't particularly care that he hasn't had a full season. With all those cards in his favour, playing with 10 men behind the ball against teams like Burton, Barnsley, Ipswich etc, is simply unacceptable. 

And people still claim he needs more time. He was here for 35 games, and with all that talent, we defended our way to 13th, behind the likes of Cardiff. Who incidentally are a bigger circus than we were. It didn't seem to bother Warnock. 

 

Cracking post

100% spot on

[TRO]

55 minutes ago, av1 said:

@markavfc40

I agree will some of that. But as was touched on on the previous page, RDM oversaw a bigger turnover of players, many of whom had threw the towel in after relegation. So it could be argued that he inherited a bigger mess than Bruce, yet no one thought he deserved more time. 

As for a decent foundation to work on. We currently don't have a keeper, and it appears Bruce's first choice is a bloke that looks average at best.

Our defence looks like an absolute shambles unless the midfield is sat directly infront of it. His january signings (taylor aside) look completely lost due to playing out of position (in the case of Lansbury and Hourihane), and islotated (in the case of Hogan)

And his tactics of 'hope kodjia does something special' is out the window for bit due to injury. 

I'm struggling to see anything other than blind optimism for next season. He might sign another couple of players to sit infront of the defence, maybe another forward player that will quickly look isolated due to a lack of support. Nothing will change. 

I've said before and I'll say again. Too much is made of the "problems" Bruce walked into to. 95% of Championship managers would crawl over broken glass to inherit the "mess" Bruce has to deal with.

Bruce is the manager of the biggest club in the division, with arguably the best owner in the division, undoubtedly be biggest budget (by far). 

He also has many of the leagues better players.

Chester

Bree

Taylor

Lansbury

Hurihane

Adomah

Grealish 

Hogan

Kodjia  

I don't particularly care that he hasn't had a full season. With all those cards in his favour, playing with 10 men behind the ball against teams like Burton, Barnsley, Ipswich etc, is simply unacceptable. 

And people still claim he needs more time. He was here for 35 games, and with all that talent, we defended our way to 13th, behind the likes of Cardiff. Who incidentally are a bigger circus than we were. It didn't seem to bother Warnock. 

 

I have to say AV i fail to see what bits of Marks post you agree with.

The points of criticism you make we can all see and I am sure Mark  sees it too.

It seems to me where the disparity kicks in is some want instant gratification and others appreciate the magnitude of the task.

In my opinion no manager would have succeeded in the rate of progress you and others were apparently looking for during the last season.

Some think we will continue with this turgid football...... i don't.......as Mark so eloquently explained , he has just used this season to stop the rot and restore club confidence.

In terms of stopping the rot and hemorrhaging goals......I think he has done marvellous, Because I could not see who was going to do that.

I accept some fans never wanted Bruce and never will.....but please give a bit of understanding/appreciation  of  the total mess these previous managers had to deal with.

Edited May 29, 2017 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

7 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

You've gone from 'change Bruce', to change everything and everyone. Do you realise how absurd that sounds?  

You'd still keep your car when the central locking system doesnt work, the electrics cut off randomly and the motors splutters to a standstill.

All we need is the same old even if it has worked till now

Quote

 

There isn't a team in professional football who have done that and been successful.

where's our success then? doing what we are doing

Quote

 Any chance you might stop bleating on for a while?

and leave the stage free for you to bleat on about what I disagree with?

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Grasshopper

[VillaCas]

On 25/05/2017 at 19:26, It's Your Round said:

How do you 'know'? Are you some kind of psychic? 

In the same way the I 'knew' Sherwood and RDM wouldn't make the grade either

[VillaCas]

On 25/05/2017 at 19:30, GENTLEMAN said:

Why? I don't understand the negativity or doubt towards Bruce. He is a very good manager at this level, very similar to Chris Hughton who are both questionable at Premier League level but proven in the Championship. I liked who we signed in January - especially the young talent like Bree/Bedeau. In my opinion, with a pre-season we will only get better under his leadership.

It still feels like Bruce is being judged at Premier League level, this league is totally different. It won't be pretty all the time next season, but I have faith that SB will get us over the line. I predict that he will leave us in a better place than he found us.

We will need to get dramatically better - Bruce took over a good squad (for the Championship), admittedly in poor form, and then had considerable funds to improve it - Bruce fans told us that he would take us up last season but taken across a full season what he delivered would only be good enough for 10th place - not even in contention for the play-offs. 

There is nothing more I would like than to be wrong and Bruce lead a charge to the PL but I fear that come Christmas we will again be looking to replace

 

[Guest av1]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have to say AV i fail to see what bits of Marks post you agree with.

The points of criticism you make we can all see and I am sure Mark  sees it too.

 

Maybe i worded it incorrectly, maybe i should have said that i understand where Mark is coming from, rather than necessarily being in agreement.

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

It seems to me where the disparity kicks in is some want instant gratification and others appreciate the magnitude of the task.

Yep, this is certainly where the disparity kicks in. I didn't expect instant gratification, and if that is something i sought I'd have given up with this football club years ago. 

What i do expect though, after 35 games and the leagues largest budget, is to see some improvement. Personally i have seen nothing. 

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

In my opinion no manager would have succeeded in the rate of progress you and others were apparently looking for during the last season.

 

You honestly believe that playing that brand of football, and finishing 13th in the league, with this squad, is as much as we could have hoped for?

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

Some think we will continue with this turgid football...... i don't......

So he couldn't make any changes over 35 games, but all will be well after a couple of pre-season friendlies at Bescot stadium?

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

In terms of stopping the rot and hemorrhaging goals......I think he has done marvellous,

With the players he has at his disposal, i think he has done a absolutely terrible job. 

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept some fans never wanted Bruce and never will.....

I was in favour of Bruce from the off. His performance for this football club has changed my opinion.

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

but please give a bit of understanding to the total mess these previous managers had to deal with.

What did he have to deal with that every other manager in this league didn't?

Ok the relegation. But since we were relegated, the chairman and the whole board has changed. We had a huge turnover of playing personal (as did many other teams in the league), and a budget that every manager (other than Benitez) could only dream of. 

The circumstances of the club are being ridiculously overplayed 

Edited May 29, 2017 by av1

[VillaCas]

On 26/05/2017 at 09:36, Stevo985 said:

Wanna bet?

I'll give £50 to Acorns if we don't get promoted next season (under the condition Bruce is here all season)

if you match it if we do get promoted.

If Bruce leaves the club via any method before the final game of next season I'll pay up regardless of league finish.

I don't like to bet against the Villa however as Acorns is the recipient then I will agree

I really hope I'm paying up come the end of the season

[KSV]

We need stability.. i would let Bruce have the off season.. get a few more players in.. get them all fit.. and see how we go in the first few months. If were struggling get rid.

I think he will turn it around. He is however not the future. 

We need a young up and coming manager like Wagner who is tactically aware.. prepares matches with a game plan and has them playing a high tempo good passing style of play. His methods are quite unique and it seems to work. Bruce at best will get us up and wont take us further than that with his turgid football. 

I do think he can get us up... possibly... but would prefer we did it with a young manager who we can have for years.. we will have to change Bruce eventually.. even if we did go up

[Guest av1]

13 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

In the same way the I 'knew' Sherwood and RDM wouldn't make the grade either

This is what i dont get. We could all see RDM was sh#t after 10 games, but after 35 games, its apparently too early to make a call on Bruce. 

 

[flashingqwerty]

I dont know where the idea comes from that Bruce stopped us conceeding lots of goals...

Under RDM we conceeded 11 in 12 and under Bruce 35 in 36.  As percentages go that improvement is so slight as to be statistically insignificant.

Bruce stooping us conceeding lots of goals is a myth despite him playing with at least 4 more players behind the ball than RDM did.

[VillaCas]

14 minutes ago, av1 said:

This is what i dont get. We could all see RDM was sh#t after 10 games, but after 35 games, its apparently too early to make a call on Bruce.

Bruce is streets ahead of RDM but it is clear to me that he is not the man to take us up

Back in October I wanted us to break the bank to bring Wagner here and many said that Bruce was a much more certain bet and that Wagner would struggle at Huddersfield - just goes to show doesnt it.

I predict - a third of a season under Bruce just outside the play-off places, then a new manager by Christmas with the usual talk of inheriting a mess, rebuilding etc etc

Rinse and repeat

[Grasshopper]

21 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I don't like to bet against the Villa however as Acorns is the recipient then I will agree

I really hope I'm paying up come the end of the season

It's up to £100 now if I could only stop calling Bruce out for his failings on 1 VT posting day.

I assure you all, I'm trying, I really am trying very very hard, but its a bit like expecting Bruce to start playing football after the pre-season. It's not likely to happen is it?

[Guest av1]

2 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I predict - a third of a season under Bruce just outside the play-off places, then a new manager by Christmas with the usual talk of inheriting a mess, rebuilding etc etc

Rinse and repeat

Thats why i can't agree with lots posts suggesting 'we should give Bruce 10 games and see where we are'

Next year is too important to simply "see how it goes". 

He's either the right man or he isn't, and that decision needs to be made now. 

[Grasshopper]

Just now, av1 said:

Thats why i can't agree with lots posts suggesting 'we should give Bruce 10 games and see where we are'

Next year is too important to simply "see how it goes". 

He's either the right man or he isn't, and that decision needs to be made now. 

Absolutely

And the decision must be........

[Grasshopper]

29 minutes ago, av1 said:

Maybe i worded it incorrectly, maybe i should have said that i understand where Mark is coming from, rather than necessarily being in agreement.

Yep, this is certainly where the disparity kicks in. I didn't expect instant gratification, and if that is something i sought I'd have given up with this football club years ago. 

What i do expect though, after 35 games and the leagues largest budget, is to see some improvement. Personally i have seen nothing. 

You honestly believe that playing that brand of football, and finishing 13th in the league, with this squad, is as much as we could have hoped for?

So he couldn't make any changes over 35 games, but all will be well after a couple of pre-season friendlies at Bescot stadium?

With the players he has at his disposal, i think he has done a absolutely terrible job. 

I was in favour of Bruce from the off. His performance for this football club has changed my opinion.

What did he have to deal with that every other manager in this league didn't?

Ok the relegation. But since we were relegated, the chairman and the whole board has changed. We had a huge turnover of playing personal (as did many other teams in the league), and a budget that every manager (other than Benitez) could only dream of. 

The circumstances of the club are being ridiculously overplayed 

@TRO

You have just been Grasshoppered by @av1