Steve Bruce

[HanoiVillan]

20 minutes ago, JE- said:

Bruce won't get another prem job in his career I'm certain of it.

[...]

I firmly believe Bruce will mess next season up just like how he messed up this one.

Oh this changes everything. You didn't say you were certain. 

Let me take this down to the bank, see how much I can get for it. 

22 minutes ago, JE- said:

And you can all bask in the joy if I'm wrong but I'm willing to wager 200 quid to anyone who thinks we will get up next season under Bruce 

Why wouldn't you be basking in joy if we go up next season? 

[Lerner's Driver]

16 minutes ago, JE- said:

I firmly believe Bruce will mess next season up just like how he messed up this one.. And you can all bask in the joy if I'm wrong but I'm willing to wager 200 quid to anyone who thinks we will get up next season under Bruce 

Don't expect anyone will take your bet because if you lose, you're bound to deny reality, disappear and pick another fight somewhere else for the fun of it. Trump really has such a lot to answer for.

[JE-]

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Oh this changes everything. You didn't say you were certain. 

Let me take this down to the bank, see how much I can get for it. 

Why wouldn't you be basking in joy if we go up next season? 

I would be happy but my point was... I will take the ribbing on here for saying no chance with the dinasour 

[markavfc40]

7 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

1) Plenty of managers do very well with teams they did not handpick 

2) no manager truly gets to pick whatever team he wants   They have to adjust to budgets, contracts, injuries, slumps, etc

3) IMO, the really good managers can adjust and make the team adjust to whatever hand they are dealt, including the roster  

4) this particular excuse some have given for Bruce seems especially week when you consider he did better with the team that was not his, than he did when he started shaping his own squad in Jan   

You’ve answered this pretty much yourself mate with your fourth point but Bruce did very well with the squad he inherited from RDM. They were on a terrible run, low on confidence and he got twice the amount of points the person who put the squad together got in his first 11 games.

I think most would agree we were doing well under Bruce up until January. Then he lost Kodjia and Ayew to AFCON, he or the club decided to take advantage of Boro coming in for Gestede, McCormack had started playing silly bastards, RHM got ideas above his station and suddenly we were left with Gabby as the only forward option who had only just got back to anything like full fitness and hadn’t scored in almost a year. I actually think Gabby did pretty well when he came into the side but clearly it left us lacking up top.

I think where he arguably did go wrong is making so many changes in January and trying to throw them all in at once. I don’t think for second he or the club envisaged so many incoming and outgoing but opportunities presented themselves, both players becoming available and clubs wanting our players, that as a collective the club felt they had to take advantage of that. For a number of games we then looked like a disjointed mess despite on paper at least it appearing we had a very good squad and much better than the teams we were facing.

As we have seen for the last handful of games the more these players have trained and played together the better we have looked. We have shown signs of a very good group of individuals evolving into a team and the rest of the season is all about continuing to do that.

Unless we have a poor end to the season then there isn’t a cat in hells chance he won’t be here come kick off in August. I think those at the club are 100% behind him. Wyness has stated they want stability and they believe the best chance of promotion is by giving time to a manager who knows all about what it takes to get clubs out of this division. I am sure they have also been impressed by the initial impact he made here, how he never flinched and looked nothing less than calm and confident during the dire run under him, and how he turned that run around to take 9 points from 12 with improved performances during that run.

Time will tell on all this but I think we are heading in the right direction. The squad look way more balanced now than it did when he arrived. A group of individuals are starting to look like a team. Even though it is hard to quantify I think a team spirit is being built as I have seen in recent weeks not only the way they celebrate goals and wins but also in the way they now seem comfortable in giving each other a bollocking when it is deserved.

There is, rightly in my opinion, no desire from those at the club to rip things up and start again. This then becomes a wasted season instead of one which was a means to an end and put the foundation in place for promotion next season.

Edited March 9, 2017 by markavfc40

[JE-]

13 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Don't expect anyone will take your bet because if you lose, you're bound to deny reality, disappear and pick another fight somewhere else for the fun of it. Trump really has such a lot to answer for.

Sorry but on what evidence is that nonsense.. I'm happy to take the bet and find a secure way of doing it if someone else is

The likely answer is nobody is willing to take me up on it... Wonder why 

[Wezbid]

13 minutes ago, JE- said:

I would be happy but my point was... I will take the ribbing on here for saying no chance with the dinasour 

The dinosaur that went up last season with a basket-case owner. 

[JE-]

7 minutes ago, Wezbid said:

The dinosaur that went up last season with a basket-case owner. 

Didn't stick around to try and keep them up though did he... 

[Stevo985]

46 minutes ago, JE- said:

Bruce has never ultimately improved any club ever.

Right, here is one last attempt to stop you posting lies like the above. A brief history of Steve Bruce's managerial career. I'll specify in each job whether he was sacked (i.e. wasn't appointed by another club which you claim never happened) and whether he improved the club (again which you claim never happened)

 

First job at Sheffield United. Guided them to 8th in the first division. Resigned citing lack of funds.
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES

Next job at Huddersfield. Started well but lost form and was eventually dismissed.
Sacked: YES. Improved: NO

Appointed at Wigan Athletic. Took them to the playoffs in Division 2 but lost in the semi finals. Left to take the Crystal Palace job.
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES

Started well at Palace. Were top of the First Division table and favourites for promotion, however Bruce resigned in order to take the Birmingham job
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES (although his tenure was short so that may be up for debate)

Birmingham City. Took over with them mid table in the Championship. Took them on a great run culminating in promotion via the playoffs. Achieved mid table finish in the premier league followed by relegation, however then bounced back with a second promotion. Note: He was headhunted TWICE by Newcastle during this period. Again something you claim never happened. Ultimately left after their takeover to join Wigan after they headhunted him and paid record compensation. Again, something you denied ever happened.
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES.

Wigan Athletic. Took Wigan to a record 11th place finish. They never achieved higher in the premier league. Succeeded there but ultimately left for Sunderland (who headhunted him so there's another one)
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES

Sunderland. Had a good season but followed it with a poor one and was ultimately dismissed after a poor run of form.
Sacked: YES. Improved: NO

Hull City. Got HUll promoted. Reached an FA Cup final, qualified Hull for their first ever European Campaign. Was relegated but followed that up with another promotion. Reported to have been headhunted by ENGLAND during this time. Resigned from Hull citing lack of transfer funds (not the nonsense you came out with about them not trusting him with funds)
Sacked: NO. Improved: YES

 

 

So, let's summarise. You said two things. That he was NEVER headhunted by another club and instead was sacked. From eight jobs, not including the villa job, he was sacked twice. That's 25%. So I think that's enough to prove you wrong. And that doesn't include the times he wa sheadhunted by Newcastle or England but didn't take the jobs.

Secondly, you said he never improved any clubs he managed. Well this one is a little more debateable, but of his 8 jobs I'd argue he improved 6 of the clubs (including Wigan twice).

 

Look, it's fine to not like Bruce, or to not want him at Villa.
But it completely undermines your opinion when you make stuff up or state stuff as fact when you've got nothing to back it up.

Saying Bruce has never been wanted by another club and that he never improved another club is demonstrably false. Stop making stuff up.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, 1974Centenary said:

But the opposition in the premier league is not relative is it?Their is the top 4/5 and the rest are a poor imitation.

So when you calculate a managers win ratio's in the premier league.....you exclude the top 4/5 because they are superior quality?

what would you do with Leicester......exclude them last season and now include them again.

Rubbish.

Edited March 9, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, JE- said:

Didn't stick around to try and keep them up though did he... 

This is a wind up

[kurtsimonw]

2 hours ago, JE- said:

Bruce has never ultimately improved any club ever..

Birmingham City: Hadn't been in the top flight since the mid 80s. Guided them to the Premier League in his first full season. Spent 4 seasons in the Premier League (which is more than the rest of the managers combined, since). He did get relegated with them, but took them up against at the first attempt. 

Sunderland: Between 2001 and 2009, Sunderland finished bottom twice, spent 3 years in the Championship, finished 15th, 16th and 17th. Bruce spent 2 seasons there and finished 13th and 10th. Since sacking him, the best they managed is 13th - with 14th, 16th and 17th x2 the others.

Wigan: Maybe didn't improve them as such, but is responsible for 1 of the 2 best finishes in the clubs history. 

Hull: Took them to the Premier League twice, more than any other manager in the clubs history and is also responsible for their best ever Premier League finish.

Nice try though.

EDIT: I see @Stevo985 already beat me to it.

Edited March 9, 2017 by kurtsimonw

[TRO]

I think the supporters of Steve Bruce are being misconstrued by his detractors.

Steve Bruce is not Pep or Jose......but he knows his way around this league.

That is what he was employed for......let's allow him to do his job.

[JE-]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the supporters of Steve Bruce are being misconstrued by his detractors.

Steve Bruce is not Pep or Jose......but he knows his way around this league.

That is what he was employed for......let's allow him to do his job.

Based on this season clearly not.. We are 15th!!! This is abysmal performance for such a promotion 'specialist' 

His job when he came in was to get top 6 THIS season it was very very clear.. His rolling contract also implies this. 

Now that's not possible the board who employed him in their attempt to save face have moved the goal posts talking about 'stability' blah blah blah bs bs bs

To sack Bruce would mean Wyness has overseen 2 failed appointments and not one success in a relatively short period of time...something I think he's desperate to try and avoid explaining for his own sake. 

He will now make a third mistake by keeping Bruce next season and when it fails he will have cost villa top flight football for years to come I suspect 

 

 

[lexicon]

Stevo:

That's how you close out an argument. I would expect either some dismissive, ego-protecting post or just another WU in return.

[kurtsimonw]

2 hours ago, JE- said:

 

2 hours ago, JE- said:

 

The only thing bruce has is his promotions.. But he scraped his last one by the skin of his teeth via play offs with hull with a squad the cost a fortune to build. 

 

 

His last one was on the back of a £20m net profit. 

[TRO]

It seems to me some folk are just looking at the success some managers are having at their clubs and putting 2&2 together.

its a superficial argument.

for every ......Smith- Wagner- Monk- Rowett ........There is a Lee Johnson, Ranieri

There are many ,many factors that are at work that make these guys successful and there is absolutely, no guarantee's it would work elsewhere.

when a manager goes from club to club and creates success everywhere that is when the odds are for him succeeding.

some of these managers offer no such Guarantee.

Monk failed at Swansea

Wagner has had one real job

Rowett has done well in 2 jobs, but relatively inexperienced

Smith has only had one job of any ilk.

[JE-]

Stevo 

Where are all his clubs he's managed now? What foundation's did he build there for long term success? Zero

Enough said on that..i applaud the convincing long-winded post above to justify his position but sorry he has never improved a club in the longer term for the best ever

[JE-]

The promotion specialist is 15th in the league with a 40m net spend side having brought in a load of his own players to help him achieve it. 

His target was play offs of which he completely messed up when it was in his grasp 

And that's what cannot be debated or argued its pure fact 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, JE- said:

Based on this season clearly not.. We are 15th!!! This is abysmal performance for such a promotion 'specialist' 

His job when he came in was to get top 6 THIS season it was very very clear.. His rolling contract also implies this. 

Now that's not possible the board who employed him in their attempt to save face have moved the goal posts talking about 'stability' blah blah blah bs bs bs

To sack Bruce would mean Wyness has overseen 2 failed appointments and not one success in a relatively short period of time...something I think he's desperate to try and avoid explaining for his own sake. 

He will now make a third mistake by keeping Bruce next season and when it fails he will have cost villa top flight football for years to come I suspect 

 

 

You seem to have no handle whatsoever on how long these things take.

This was a premier league team that went down and was only fit for division one.

They would have struggled in the championship with 3 wins all season in the Premier....they was one of the worst performing sides ever to grace that league.

Have you the slightest inclination of the size of this task.

we have presided over one manager in 20 years exceeding a 40% win ratio.

This job never ever was a one season repair job.

I have to say, your impatience or failure to value the size of the task is unhelpful.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, JE- said:

Stevo 

Where are all his clubs he's managed now? What foundation's did he build there for long term success? Zero

Enough said on that..i applaud the convincing long-winded post above to justify his position but sorry he has never improved a club in the longer term for the best ever

Some folk in life have tough jobs and success as you call it is not always measured the quite same way with owners of clubs.....they sometimes look at the improvement behind the scenes that has not yet manifested itself to the pitch.

according to your argument, the managers of teams that finish regularly below 6th in the Premier league are all low grade.

so Tony Pulis is rubbish is he?

If he had of been appointed at Villa, before Albion we would be having the same conversation.