sne Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just now, Stevo985 said: Would it halt it? Well that remains to be seen. For me we have a better chance of doing so than if we maintain with Steve Bruce. Some will feel the other way round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: If the decision is to sack bruce and install a caretaker until the summer, then I don't really see the point of sacking him. Yep. We should be replacing him, meaning that the new guy starts pre season with a good idea of the squad. And hopefully, unlike Bruce he comes in with an actual plan on how to rebuild this team through coaching and some smart signings. I do not want a complete squad change again. The next guy should be able to work with what with got and add 2 or 3 quality additions in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just now, Stevo985 said: If we were in genuine danger of getting relegated, would Brian Little be the guy to save us? Maybe not its my heart taking over my head. He's been out of management so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, slowandlow said: agreed. how many of those shots are actually clear cut or even half chances - not that many 45 shots or whatever in the last two games and we've forced the goalies into one meaningful save in that period the majority of the rest have been speculative at best Against Ipswich their keeper made at least 4 saves in the first 15 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I do worry that if we bring in a new manager now rather than in the summer we risk infecting the new guy with this poisonous loser mentality that hangs around the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, striker said: From what I've seen recently at the Villa, caretaker bosses have actually turned out worse than the manager's they've replaced. Not a good idea in my book and I wouldn't want Calderwood anyway. Very true. Round - get the feelers out now for replacement at the end of season latest. I was in the stability camp, but this series of results is untenable. If the right person is available before the summer get them in, otherwise lets stumble on and hope we can sneak enough points to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't think there's a single person on VT who has said this. No, but the only defenses used to defend Bruce, are that he has a good history and we need stability. Using the logic of the history argument, I am showing that the successful teams of this league, did not look at how many promotions their managers had achieved, as it is meaningless. And following the logic of Bruce being the manager with most promotions from this league, therefore our best available option, he should be better than the managers in the top 6. Though, that is clearly not the case. Also that, few managers in the top 6 teams have been there for long, meaning that they do not have manager stability, so I do not get the argument that we should keep a manager who is so clearly failing, just because of stability. If you want a rant on why I think Bruce is a bad manager, feel free to ask for it. Just be warned, it will take a long time to write, because there is A LOT wrong with him. Keep in mind I'm not a native English speaker, so my expressions will not be clear 95% of the time Edited February 15, 2017 by Chicken Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Sack him now while Rowett is still available. I really think he would be perfect for Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) double post. Edited February 15, 2017 by Chicken Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowandlow Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Against Ipswich their keeper made at least 4 saves in the first 15 minutes From memory he made 1 very good save the rest were routine saves that if they had gone in would have been considered howlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: No, but the only defenses used to defend Bruce, are that he has a good history and we need stability. Using the logic of the history argument, I am showing that the successful teams of this league, did not look at how many promotions their managers had achieved, as it is meaningless. And following the logic of Bruce being the manager with most promotions from this league, therefore our best available option, he should be better than the managers in the top 6. Though, that is clearly not the case. Also that, few managers in the top 6 teams have been there for long, meaning that they do not have manager stability, so I do not get the argument that we should keep a manager who is so clearly failing, just because of stability. If you want a rant on why I think Bruce is a bad manager, feel free to ask for it. Just be warned, it will take a long time to write, because there is A LOT wrong with him. Keep in mind I'm not a native English speaker, so my expressions will not be clear 95% of the time I agree the defence of Bruce is his record. But that is not the same thing as saying managers without a record are crap. Nobody has said bruce is better than benitez because he has a better record in the championship. They are vastly different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I wasn't there last night, only listened to two thirds of it on the radio so, this is a question for all those on here who are certain Bruce must go... were there any signs of improvement last night? Putting aside the recurring individual errors, the fragile mentality and the hideous inevitability of yet another defeat, did his line up, the overall team performance and his approach to the match show he had learned something and there were some signs of improvement from his players? Of course, the things I've asked you to put aside are important and must be dealt with, but when hate sets in people lose their sense of balance. If there were any signs of improvement, he still has to be given time. If there were no signs of improvement then sure, sack him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: I wasn't there last night, only listened to two thirds of it on the radio so, this is a question for all those on here who are certain Bruce must go... were there any signs of improvement last night? Putting aside the recurring individual errors, the fragile mentality and the hideous inevitability of yet another defeat, did his line up, the overall team performance and his approach to the match show he had learned something and there were some signs of improvement from his players? Of course, the things I've asked you to put aside are important and must be dealt with, but when hate sets in people lose their sense of balance. If there were any signs of improvement, he still has to be given time. If there were no signs of improvement then sure, sack him. Improvement from what though? The last few games? The games when he first joined? Games under RDM? If it's just the first, then I don't see why losing 3-1 but playing better than losing 1-0 or 2-1 is any indication that more time should be given. For me, performances are worse than RDM. Results are worse than when he first joined. There's nothing happening to suggest more time will see the sort of turn around that will compete for promotion next season 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Taking away Bruce for a second, It would have to be some miracle to turn this form around for next season. Regardless of who is manager I can't see it. Too many mistakes, too many not performing, too many making same mistakes week in week out. I would've thought the overhaul would achieve that but apparently not. Can't see us getting promoted next season even if we do change manager (which I think we need to do anyway) I don't expect us to be rock bottom though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Improvement from what though? The last few games? The games when he first joined? Games under RDM? If it's just the first, then I don't see why losing 3-1 but playing better than losing 1-0 or 2-1 is any indication that more time should be given. For me, performances are worse than RDM. Results are worse than when he first joined. There's nothing happening to suggest more time will see the sort of turn around that will compete for promotion next season Yes improvement over the last few games. You didn't answer the question, I notice. Of course it's debatable as to how long a run of defeats can be sustained and there's no doubt each one tightens the noose, but... If performances are improving, they buy him time because it shows he is learning, responding and having an impact, even if it's not enough (yet), to produce the win. When all these things stop being seen in his performance as manager and we go maybe 3 or 4 more games without a win, then yes it's time. Not quite yet, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just now, dudevillaisnice said: Taking away Bruce for a second, It would have to be some miracle to turn this form around for next season. Regardless of who is manager I can't see it. Too many mistakes, too many not performing, too many making same mistakes week in week out. I would've thought the overhaul would achieve that but apparently not. Can't see us getting promoted next season even if we do change manager (which I think we need to do anyway) I don't expect us to be rock bottom though. We might get promoted next season. But only if we get relegated this season..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Lerner's Driver said: Yes improvement over the last few games. You didn't answer the question, I notice. Of course it's debatable as to how long a run of defeats can be sustained and there's no doubt each one tightens the noose, but... If performances are improving, they buy him time because it shows he is learning, responding and having an impact, even if it's not enough (yet), to produce the win. When all these things stop being seen in his performance as manager and we go maybe 3 or 4 more games without a win, then yes it's time. Not quite yet, in my opinion. I didn't answer the question because for the first time this season I chose not to go. I just don't see any faith in an improving 3-1 loss from a 1-0 loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I didn't answer the question because for the first time this season I chose not to go. I just don't see any faith in an improving 3-1 loss from a 1-0 loss. Don't blame you for not going. I'm trying to apply a management performance template to Bruce and his contribution. Anyone who has been through this process knows that it's likely you are on your way out because you are not rated, but if you engage with the process and can demonstrate your improvement, they won't sack you because you are meeting the criteria. He's got 3 or 4 games at most to continue showing improved performances and results, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I can't see how, after being backed so heavily in January, Bruce won't be given a bit more than 2 weeks to turn things around. His argument will be that he's only had 2-3 weeks with the players that he wants and that it takes time for them to gel. I don't know how much time exactly that buys him - probably another 3-4 weeks? If we fail to pick up many points in that timeframe we may be staring ever more closely at a relegation battle - which would almost certainly destroy Xia's business plans and potentially set us back 4-5 years at least (you'd imagine that with wages / income / etc we'd have to sell most of the squad to be able to survive financially). After all the complaints down the year about how our owner has frustrated our attempts to develop and challenge as a club by not backing the manager (other than a couple of bright year's at the start of Lerner's tenure) it is a particularly cruel form of irony that we now have an owner who is doing everything he possibly can whilst the team seems intent on some form of spectacular self-destruct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2017 This isn't strictly related to Steve Bruce, it's been a problem of the past 3 years really, but we really do seem to get punished with most mistakes we make, don't we? It seem so very rare that we capitalise on other teams mistakes, I can think maybe Fulham at home this year? I don't get it. It's like someone has just put a curse on this football club. Sick to death of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts