Next Villa Manager

[Demitri_C]

Cotterill? Jesus hell no!!

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said:

Would quite like Wagner if we could convince him to come - something about his Dortmund background, football phiilosphy and work with Huddersfield is making me think he could be a special manager and someone who could take this club forward with the backing of Xia. I know people want safe-hands Bruce but the idea of him just depresses me tbh. I would back him if appointed, but he would just be a temporary sticking plaster and we would hit problems again in a year or two as would have to replace him and rebuild.  Lets face it. The chances of getting promoted this year are slim now as we'd have to win about 60% of our games by my reckoning.  I don't see that happening tbh - not with Bruce or any other manager. So we have a bit of time to build now and to me someone like Wagner, or a good up-and-coming manager, would be ideal - for me anyway.

Its these footballing Philosophies that worry me and I am not directly referring to Wagner, because I do not know enough about him and his methods( Remi Garde was dealt a poor hand ,but he was lost in it all, too much wrong.)......I am really not knocking them, but there is a right time for all that. Now we are light years away from that, just watch the games , yes even through your fingers, because thats how bad it is.....The games are littered with things a schoolmaster would be cringing/bawling at.

We can't even do the basics.....There are posters on here that have listed them all without going over old ground.

We want a manager that can implement the very basic ingredients of attempting to win a football match.....This head in the clouds stuff has to stop, we are in a serious situation and need a manager who can identify with this and get on the training ground and get this team back to functioning to carry out the fundamentals.

We have just dispensed with a manager that has won the European cup for christ sake ( however he has done it) when is the penny going to drop.

RDM perhaps thought he was going to tweak here and tweak there.....There is no John Terry to rely on here......bad habits and poor play has engulfed this club to a point where we have long gone past a point where good footballing philosophies, (usually borne on the continent) will help us......with much improvement over a period of time it may be prudent to take up your challenge and I would be more inclined to agree.

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by TRO

[BOF]

Going back to the Howe v Dyche discussion.  Am I the only one who sees Dyche as having a far lower ceiling than Howe?  For me I think Howe has the potential to manage at the top.  He will also be England manager at some point.  There were calls for him to replace Allardyce or even be appointed instead of Allardyce.  Dyche is the archetypal get the little guy to punch above his weight kind of manager and I don't see him doing much more than he's doing right now.  For me he's the next generation of Curbishley/Pulis/Allardyce whereas Howe is the next generation for higher up the league.  It's also why I think we'd never get him at this point in time.  We'd have a better chance of getting Dyche.  The question is whether we'd want him.  For me he'd be somewhere down the list although I'd be OK with him for the purpose of getting us out of the league.  Maybe I'm downplaying him somewhat but that's my gut instinct.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Don't know enough about Cotterill to pass judgement. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[NulliSecundus]

11 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

Sky Sources they say...  They mean the CEO of SkyBet to fleece money out of punters.

Nail. Head.

[AntrimBlack]

I suspect that Xia will go for the Wagner type of manager, or a `name'.

I really do not think that Bruce and that type of manager will be Xia's choice, though he may well have someone like that chosen for him by Wyness and Round.

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, cbr600rr said:

i would go for bruce, proven manager, winner as a player. 

Me too, I think

[dubliner]

Has Michael O'Neill been mentioned at all?

Has worked wonders with Shamrock Rovers and Northern Ireland.

Not sure if he's the right fit yet but I can see him making a real impact in English club management at some point.

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

Going back to the Howe v Dyche discussion.  Am I the only one who sees Dyche as having a far lower ceiling than Howe?  For me I think Howe has the potential to manage at the top.  He will also be England manager at some point.  There were calls for him to replace Allardyce or even be appointed instead of Allardyce.  Dyche is the archetypal get the little guy to punch above his weight kind of manager and I don't see him doing much more than he's doing right now.  For me he's the next generation of Curbishley/Pulis/Allardyce whereas Howe is the next generation for higher up the league.  It's also why I think we'd never get him at this point in time.  We'd have a better chance of getting Dyche.  The question is whether we'd want him.  For me he'd be somewhere down the list although I'd be OK with him for the purpose of getting us out of the league.  Maybe I'm downplaying him somewhat but that's my gut instinct.

I don't know - they're both upcoming managers and have both done very well.  They've also both managed Burnley and, whilst Howe left for personal reasons (maybe a bit of a David Unsworth?), Dyche took over and apparently lead them to their best start to a season ever.  That's ever.  I think Howe is more pragmatic, though, and very much wants his side to play a certain way.  Bournemouth were fairly big spenders when they got promoted, weren't they?  Could be wrong there.

I'd take either.  They're both doing superb jobs IMO.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

A mate of mine mentioned him to me as well.  I'm unsure of Mancini's management ability in the same way that I was unsure of RDM's ability.  The trouble is that his status as a player gave him immediate access to managing football clubs that are naturally higher in the pecking order.  He has never had a task similar to what he would inherit at Villa and I'm not sure he'd be up to it.  I don't want to be another proving ground for a 'name' manager who ultimately flatters to deceive.  I'm not saying he's a charlatan to the degree that RDM seems to be, but I don't think he's all that either.

His status and name might even preclude us from getting him in the first place so it might all be moot.

On the money

We are not in the right place for that kind of manager and if we appear to be lucky enough to get one it will be a big mistake IMO

[Keyblade]

7 minutes ago, BOF said:

Going back to the Howe v Dyche discussion.  Am I the only one who sees Dyche as having a far lower ceiling than Howe?  For me I think Howe has the potential to manage at the top.  He will also be England manager at some point.  There were calls for him to replace Allardyce or even be appointed instead of Allardyce.  Dyche is the archetypal get the little guy to punch above his weight kind of manager and I don't see him doing much more than he's doing right now.  For me he's the next generation of Curbishley/Pulis/Allardyce whereas Howe is the next generation for higher up the league.  It's also why I think we'd never get him at this point in time.  We'd have a better chance of getting Dyche.  The question is whether we'd want him.  For me he'd be somewhere down the list although I'd be OK with him for the purpose of getting us out of the league.  Maybe I'm downplaying him somewhat but that's my gut instinct.

We're long past the point of trying to get a manager that can get us up there long term. We've tried it a few times and it just hasn't worked. We need someone who can meet our immediate goals, which right now is to get the ***** out of the Championship...which Dyche has done twice in the last 3 years. If Howe is unattainable for now, we can wait until we get to a position where he won't be anymore. 

[rubberman]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

Going back to the Howe v Dyche discussion.  Am I the only one who sees Dyche as having a far lower ceiling than Howe?  For me I think Howe has the potential to manage at the top.  He will also be England manager at some point.  There were calls for him to replace Allardyce or even be appointed instead of Allardyce.  Dyche is the archetypal get the little guy to punch above his weight kind of manager and I don't see him doing much more than he's doing right now.  For me he's the next generation of Curbishley/Pulis/Allardyce whereas Howe is the next generation for higher up the league.  It's also why I think we'd never get him at this point in time.  We'd have a better chance of getting Dyche.  The question is whether we'd want him.  For me he'd be somewhere down the list although I'd be OK with him for the purpose of getting us out of the league.  Maybe I'm downplaying him somewhat but that's my gut instinct.

Completely agree.  And that's why Howe is almost certainly unobtainable.  There was mention that Dyche might be possible and for me he's a more progressive option that Bruce, but lower risk than Wagner et al.  

If Bruce is the get us up and move on option, Dyche would be the get us up and consolidate upper-mid Prem option.

[NulliSecundus]

I've seen nothing to suggest that Dyche is an upper mid table option personally.

Get Brue with the aim of getting promoted this season (but give him next season if we just miss out given our shocking start).

If/when we get to the Premier League you have to give him the tools to at least see where he can get us. It would be nice to have a manger for more than half a season, personally.

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't know - they're both upcoming managers and have both done very well.  They've also both managed Burnley and, whilst Howe left for personal reasons (maybe a bit of a David Unsworth?), Dyche took over and apparently lead them to their best start to a season ever.  That's ever.  I think Howe is more pragmatic, though, and very much wants his side to play a certain way.  Bournemouth were fairly big spenders when they got promoted, weren't they?  Could be wrong there.

I'd take either.  They're both doing superb jobs IMO.

Yep, no argument that they're both doing a superb job now.  I was on about their ultimate ceiling for what that's worth (probably nothing right now ).  The one thing that I have yet to see from Howe is whether he can do it somewhere other than Bournemouth.  Y'see he is to Bournemouth what Simeone is to Atlético.  What Martinez is to Wigan.  They are in his DNA and he is in theirs.  He's a hero.  Therefore how much of his momentum and motivation is because the club he's managing is Bournemouth and not someone else?  That I don't know, and I may be overstating that gap in his CV because he can clearly manage a football club.  I'd probably be a little more comfortable about him if his 1 albeit massive success wasn't at the club that runs through his veins.

[AvfcTheObsession]

7 minutes ago, dubliner said:

Has Michael O'Neill been mentioned at all?

Has worked wonders with Shamrock Rovers and Northern Ireland.

Not sure if he's the right fit yet but I can see him making a real impact in English club management at some point.

I think this guy's a good manager, definitely overachieving with Northern Ireland, done really well in qualifying and the Euros. Would represent a risk though as he's never managed a club side in a big or competitive league.

[BOF]

10 minutes ago, dubliner said:

Has Michael O'Neill been mentioned at all?

Has worked wonders with Shamrock Rovers and Northern Ireland.

Not sure if he's the right fit yet but I can see him making a real impact in English club management at some point.

Yes, by me

Linkety link.

[dubliner]

3 minutes ago, BOF said:

Yes, by me

Linkety link.

Excellent post

 

[AvfcTheObsession]

3 minutes ago, BOF said:

Yes, by me

Linkety link.

Did Michael O'Neill play attacking football when in charge of Shamrock? Obviously at NI he is often underdogs so has to be quite defensive.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, BOF said:

I think in the end all was bad about him.  Whether he was backed or whether it was his squad became secondary to what we were hearing about how he treated the players who were not part of his immediate plans (Veretout) and how he went about trying to find a winning formula, by figuratively throwing darts at a dartboard.  A professional manager who knows what he's doing would never resort to such random and indiscriminate formation and personnel changes in order to bring about sustainable change.  The playing staff see this too.  His approach to match day line-ups would not have gone unnoticed to the players who must have been thinking we haven't a hope under this fella, and the performances and results bore that out.  He may have started out well by virtue of not being Paul Lambert, but we got the real Sherwood in the end.  A complete unmitigated disaster of a blagger who should never be put in charge of a football club again.

We have just presided over a bunch of them.....I'm not defending him BOF but your description of throwing darts at a dart board is a bit of a jaundiced view.

I was talking to a blues mate of mine....( yea I have one, rare species) I was lauding Gary Rowett and he gave a warts n' all view on that , citing strange selection decisions at times....despite us agreeing overall doing a great job for them.

Football managers have many factors to consider when selecting players for a game.....Their window is somewhat broader than ours, thats why this confusion creeps in.

I would give him a tad more credit than using a dartboard.

......but hey! its the future we want to get right.

Edited October 4, 2016 by TRO

[allani]

Just now, BOF said:

Going back to the Howe v Dyche discussion.  Am I the only one who sees Dyche as having a far lower ceiling than Howe?  For me I think Howe has the potential to manage at the top.  He will also be England manager at some point.  There were calls for him to replace Allardyce or even be appointed instead of Allardyce.  Dyche is the archetypal get the little guy to punch above his weight kind of manager and I don't see him doing much more than he's doing right now.  For me he's the next generation of Curbishley/Pulis/Allardyce whereas Howe is the next generation for higher up the league.  It's also why I think we'd never get him at this point in time.  We'd have a better chance of getting Dyche.  The question is whether we'd want him.  For me he'd be somewhere down the list although I'd be OK with him for the purpose of getting us out of the league.  Maybe I'm downplaying him somewhat but that's my gut instinct.

I think Howe needs to "do it again" at a bigger club before his ceiling can be raised.  There have been plenty of managers who looked like being the "next big thing" only to lose their way or fail at the next level.  David Moyes being the obvious recent example - but there are countless others.  I very much agree on Dyche (bottom end Prem manager) - I'm yet to be convinced that Howe is much more than that (although I think there is a lot more to him).  I think the fact that he is being talked about as a possible England manager just shows how crap English managers are (or maybe how few there are) - and that we need to follow the egg-chasers and recruit the best guy for the job regardless of where he comes from!! 

But I can't see any scenario under which either Howe or Dyche will be the next Villa manager.  Actually that's not strictly true if we assume that Clark is the current manager - in which case it would be possible that he gets some great results this month and stays on to the end of the season (and we finish in a pretty good position) and in the meantime Bournemouth / Burnley fall back into the relegation zone (whilst still playing reasonably well to give confidence in the managerial aptitude) and go down.  Then we might be in a good position to offer either a large salary increase and big(ger) transfer kitty to jump ship early in pre-season.  With no Euros / World Cups this summer then hopefully they would be able to start the rebuilding process early and actually get most of their signings done and dusted ahead of the start of next season.