Copa America 2016

[useless]

Messi has already scored more club goals than Maradona in less appearences, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story for assists. And he has a better goalscoring average at international level, despite playing with lower quality players, to the ones Maradona played with. I don't think Messi is vastly inferior to anybody.

[sharkyvilla]

49 minutes ago, useless said:

Messi has already scored more club goals than Maradona in less appearences, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar story for assists. And he has a better goalscoring average at international level, despite playing with lower quality players, to the ones Maradona played with. I don't think Messi is vastly inferior to anybody.

You're making the mistake in that Messi always has to live up to what Maradona achieved, but ignore every other area where Messi has surpassed him by a country mile.

[PaulC]

The only thing I disagree with there is Messi has played with lower quality players at international level than Maradona. The 86 team wasn't very good, vastly inferior to the 78 one. He virtually won the world cup on his own in 86. 

Edited June 28, 2016 by PaulC

[VillaChris]

Neymar plays with poorer player at international level than Messi does.

You can't say with a straight face likes of Aguero, Di Maria, Mascherano are poor players. Mascherano was the best Argie player at last world cup and should've been contender for world football of the year but there's no marketing for a defensive midfielder like him.

[Zatman]

29 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Neymar plays with poorer player at international level than Messi does.

You can't say with a straight face likes of Aguero, Di Maria, Mascherano are poor players. Mascherano was the best Argie player at last world cup and should've been contender for world football of the year but there's no marketing for a defensive midfielder like him.

so does Suarez and he was best player Copa America in 2011

[Zatman]

im all for players getting emotional after losing a big game BUT if Ronaldo acts like that on thursday if poland will he will be called petulant and self-centred which is what Messi was. He showed absolute no character or care for his team-mates after his miss

[maqroll]

Was Tevez not selected?

[PaulC]

Add  Higuain as well, its probably one of the best group of players Argentina have ever had. 

[Zatman]

problem for Argentina is they have no good defenders or keeper. not one of the defenders are safe and they continually select Rojo for example who is garbage

[kurtsimonw]

The defense not being particularly good is something I agree with. However, they're not to be blamed for not winning anything. In the past 3 years, Argentina have made 3 finals and conceded 0 goals in 90 minutes in any of them. They've conceded 1 goal overall. The issue is they've scored 0.

Diego is one of those players that's done something a bit special as well. Winning multiple league titles with Napoli, when they'd won 0 in their history is a ridiculous achievement. Especially when you consider the 2nd of those was against the arguably one of the greatest teams of all time in Milan of the late 80s/early 90s. 

[heffoman]

Tim Vickers wrote a pretty good article in defense of Messi. If I can find it again I ll link it.

People look back on Maradona and his achievements at times through rose tinted googles and forget the many games he played bad. They just remember the golden moments. Unfortunately Messi is having his career at the moment right in front of us and maybe in the future through the vennier of time gone by he will afforded that luxury. 

Argentina were going nowhere in this Copa America till he came on and completely changed the dynamic. 

For me he probably is the greatest player of all time. Sad to see him leave this way and yes it could have been handled far far better but the weight of expectation on his shoulders must be colossal. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

17 hours ago, PaulC said:

The only thing I disagree with there is Messi has played with lower quality players at international level than Maradona. The 86 team wasn't very good, vastly inferior to the 78 one. He virtually won the world cup on his own in 86. 

Yes, the Argentina sides Messi has played in are vastly superior to Maradona's. He did indeed practically win the world cup in 86 and also dragged them to the final in 90. Like I say, Messi in the second tier down to Maradona, Maradona never played for a club side of the quality of Messi's Barcelona. Also Maradona had to play on worse pitches and had the shit kicked out of him practically every match whereas Messi is far more protected and the game isn't as brutal as it was in the 70's and 80's.

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, heffoman said:

Tim Vickers wrote a pretty good article in defense of Messi. If I can find it again I ll link it.

People look back on Maradona and his achievements at times through rose tinted googles and forget the many games he played bad. They just remember the golden moments. Unfortunately Messi is having his career at the moment right in front of us and maybe in the future through the vennier of time gone by he will afforded that luxury. 

Argentina were going nowhere in this Copa America till he came on and completely changed the dynamic. 

For me he probably is the greatest player of all time. Sad to see him leave this way and yes it could have been handled far far better but the weight of expectation on his shoulders must be colossal. 

Messi has had his share of bad 'key' games too, including the world cup final two years ago, pretty much all of the world cup in 2010 and the recent copa america final.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss

[Stevo985]

I love people who say Messi is nowhere near as good as Maradona yet have probably never seen maradona play beyond a few highlights.

Guy in my office is a prime example

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stevo985

[kurtsimonw]

I imagine the 5 star skills with pace! FIFA generation who all love Messi have thoroughly researched all media possible to have a balanced view. Or, they've probably not even watched Messi play, forget Maradona.

[will87]

I think Messi in his prime (which has now gone) was better than Maradona, but it's like saying Usain Bolt is better than Carl Lewis, it's not really a fair comparison with the time that has passed.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I love people who think you can't have a strong opinion about something because you wasn't alive when it happened.

[KHV]

I think Maradona was better than Messi, Maradona played in an inferior international team and also played with inferior players at club level.  Messi throughout his career has had a wonderful support cast, especially at Barcelona

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I love people who think you can't have a strong opinion about something because you wasn't alive when it happened.

Firstly, just to make it clear, I wasn't talking about anyone in this thread. I was talking about the guy in my office who told me today that Messi isn't as good as Maradona because Maradona won the title with Napoli. He's 21. 

Secondly, when you are comparing footballers, I think it completely does matter that you were alive to compare them, or at least seen a lot of them play. It's why if anybody asks me who the greatest footballer ever is I'll say something like "Messi although if I'd seen Pele or Maradona play I might say different". 

Otherwise you're going solely on reputation or hearsay. How can I possibly compare Messi and Maradona when I've not seen Maradona beyond a few highlghts?

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stevo985

[PaulC]

Most people who say its Messi or Ronaldo are the ones that never saw the previous greats. To judge on stats alone or Youtube videos is not enough. All one can say is Puskas was the greatest in the 50s with possible competition from Di Stefano, Pele the 60s and early 70s and Maradona in the 80s. To compare them with current players is difficult.