Doping

[VillaJ100]

3 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Let's just have a free for all. I want to see someone run 100 m in 6 seconds.

It pretty much is a free for all

[Jimzk5]

3 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Let's just have a free for all. I want to see someone run 100 m in 6 seconds.

Yep, have 2 competitions, one for those who use these drugs and one for clean athletes

 

[VillaJ100]

It's an interesting argument with drugs. It's an augmentation to enhance what you already have. But then again so are contact lenses. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, VillaJ100 said:

It pretty much is a free for all

It's a free for some.

You just have to have the right passport and backing

[fightoffyour]

26 minutes ago, Jimzk5 said:

Yep, have 2 competitions, one for those who use these drugs and one for clean athletes

 

I thought that, but then there would still be doping in the non-doping competition in order to have an advantage.

[HanoiVillan]

Lots of people have had the idea of a 'doping Olympics' or just allowing doping. The problem is it doesn't create a 'level playing field' (as bodies react differently) and is incredibly dangerous. You would see a lot of dead young athletes.

[sne]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Lots of people have had the idea of a 'doping Olympics' or just allowing doping. The problem is it doesn't create a 'level playing field' (as bodies react differently) and is incredibly dangerous. You would see a lot of dead young athletes.

Also extremely different resources (doping substances, technology and medical knowledge) available depending on where you're from.

China, Russia, USA, Spain and a bunch of other countries have a level of technology in this area other countries will never be even close to.

[Zatman]

13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Lots of people have had the idea of a 'doping Olympics' or just allowing doping. The problem is it doesn't create a 'level playing field' (as bodies react differently) and is incredibly dangerous. You would see a lot of dead young athletes.

Look at some of the ages wrestlers die, its quite scary especially when the money on the line is a lot less

[Jimzk5]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Lots of people have had the idea of a 'doping Olympics' or just allowing doping. The problem is it doesn't create a 'level playing field' (as bodies react differently) and is incredibly dangerous. You would see a lot of dead young athletes.

And?

If some 25 years wants to fill he's body with steroids and whatever, let them be open with it, let them run the 100 meter race smacked up to the tits, when they die because of the shit they've taken they did it willingly

Have 2 races, those who want to take this shit can run, inject what you want

Those who don't want to get a coffee and a wham bar before the race to perk them up a bit

Athletics is shit anyway, make it relevant, get mo farrah to order a taxi and get out without paying the driver, then time how fast he runs, see how far a high jumper can scale a fence after being caught legging it from the police

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Jimzk5

[Mic09]

Doping in sport is interesting.

Some say about potential deaths because of it. Sure, 100% agree, but then again how many people die because they do sport and take it to extreme in the first place? I'd hazard a guess it's in thousands every year.

Thing is, every professional athlete in sports such as athletics, bike racing etc is doping. It's just a question of "what" and how much - some drugs are legal, other not. 

Look at Norwegian ski runners. Most of them are asthmatic (or at least they claim to be) so they take drugs that allow more air into lungs. They say it's all fair and they win a lot. Now when I think of someone with breathing difficulties, I don't think of professional endurance athletes.

As bad as the current system is, it's probably the best compromise. Bolt was the fastest person on the planet, but if doping was allowed with no restrictions, I wouldn't be surprised if a spotty 17 year old Austrian was the fastest person just because he would take best to the drugs given to him. Just look at the 80s German/Soviet sports women.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Mic09

[sne]

Russia banned from all major sporting events for 4 years by WADA today.

Doesn't apply to to next summers Euro's or the 2021 Champions League final (played in St Petersburg) apparently.

As much as Russia have been cheating I don't like these types of collective punishment, feels more political than anything else.

If Russia is banned then so should the US of A and Kenya and a bunch of other countries also be.

Edited December 9, 2019 by sne

[Zatman]

Not technically doping but Daryl Murphy admitted he got a 2 month ban last season for cocaine. FA doesn't name players caught using recreational drugs. 

Makes you wonder if other players are getting banned for this and have injuries 

[A'Villan]

On 11/12/2019 at 01:52, Zatman said:

Not technically doping but Daryl Murphy admitted he got a 2 month ban last season for cocaine. FA doesn't name players caught using recreational drugs. 

Makes you wonder if other players are getting banned for this and have injuries 

It would be rife. Not full blown addiction and dependence, that would be few and far between.

Here in Australia it's ridiculous. I have quite a few in my network who spend everyday with AFL players over here, my sister included.

And I know from playing basketball semi-professionally at club level and in professional tournaments what goes on at after parties and end of season celebrations.

If it's happening with regularity in sport worldwide, I imagine England (despite being the pinnacle of professionalism and standards) would have a drug culture too.

I just did a google on it, 11 players allowed to play on this year despite testing positive for performance enhancing drugs last year.

Apparently Marijuana and Cocaine culture is big in England too, just as I had guessed but didn't know having never been over there and exposed to it.

[VillaJ100]

Its obviously only one guys sample, but my dad is in his mid 60's and knew about 8 or 9 guys who were big into coke in the 80's. The longest lived of them died about a decade ago at 53. All of them died from heart related problems. Put me right off. I wonder if people my age now (late 20's to early 30's) if there will be an epidemic of heart problems in about 15-20 years time. Probably a slight increase at least I'd have thought.

[foreveryoung]

On 10/12/2019 at 14:52, Zatman said:

Not technically doping but Daryl Murphy admitted he got a 2 month ban last season for cocaine. FA doesn't name players caught using recreational drugs. 

Makes you wonder if other players are getting banned for this and have injuries 

The football authorities have been known to cover up drug use in football, as they don't want it to tarnish the game. The high intesity football some teams play, shows there must be some sort of drug usage. The unbeatable Barcelona team were always questioned. But they had the best team in the world for years, no one would want to come out and say they have been found using.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

The football authorities have been known to cover up drug use in football, as they don't want it to tarnish the game. The high intesity football some teams play, shows there must be some sort of drug usage. The unbeatable Barcelona team were always questioned. But they had the best team in the world for years, no one would want to come out and say they have been found using.

Without making allegations I don't believe for a minute its possible that Liverpool can be on such a great run without a moment of fatigue. Many of the star players have been involved in games all over the world in recent months yet they show no signs of tiredness. Since January 2018 they have had 2 Champions League finals, 2 title chases with World Cup, Copa America, African Nations and Nations League in the summers between 

They only use about 17 players 

[Chindie]

IIRC there were more than a few questions about the Leicester title winning side as far as doping went. 

I remember seeing a shot of Kante in training at that time where he had veins in his calves like other people's jugulars. And then there's Vardy, who appears never to tire and, if anything, is faster and more energetic now than he was in that title side, despite being 32 odd.

More generally I'd suspect football must be riddled with doping. At the top level the intensity and extent of that intensity, and the money, lends itself to people seeking an edge, and that's inevitably going to lead to supplements and substances being used to keep going. Even if you account for the top sides effectively cherry picking physical freaks, we're still looking at teams having 25+ players each who are expected to do 90 mins of running, including regular out and out sprinting, twice a week, plus training, plus travel. Even with the absolute best in training and support, that's going to burn players out at surely a higher rate than we see, with higher rates of injury and more varied performance.

Undoubtedly there's going to be the players out there that can do that, that week in week out can run 10k Sunday and Wednesday, whilst maintaining technique, and do that all season largely without injury, illness or burnout, but it's surely less what we see.

[Dr_Pangloss]

20 hours ago, Chindie said:

IIRC there were more than a few questions about the Leicester title winning side as far as doping went. 

I remember seeing a shot of Kante in training at that time where he had veins in his calves like other people's jugulars. And then there's Vardy, who appears never to tire and, if anything, is faster and more energetic now than he was in that title side, despite being 32 odd.

More generally I'd suspect football must be riddled with doping. At the top level the intensity and extent of that intensity, and the money, lends itself to people seeking an edge, and that's inevitably going to lead to supplements and substances being used to keep going. Even if you account for the top sides effectively cherry picking physical freaks, we're still looking at teams having 25+ players each who are expected to do 90 mins of running, including regular out and out sprinting, twice a week, plus training, plus travel. Even with the absolute best in training and support, that's going to burn players out at surely a higher rate than we see, with higher rates of injury and more varied performance.

Undoubtedly there's going to be the players out there that can do that, that week in week out can run 10k Sunday and Wednesday, whilst maintaining technique, and do that all season largely without injury, illness or burnout, but it's surely less what we see.

Just think about how much revenues even average clubs rake in. To set up an environment for industrial scale doping within your football club would be very easy. I'm talking the kind of scale and resources which would be so far ahead of current anti doping agencies that the players would simply not get caught. This is almost certainly wide spread in the game, clearly not at the Villa though.

[villa4europe]

Like all sports I don't think it's daft to suggest most top clubs have a Dr somewhere knowing what's banned and what's new and not banned yet, staying ahead of the curve 

I would say that there are sports worse than football for it though, American sports in particular I imagine have some drug trials going on 

The science that comes with fitness is way out there now too, you don't see many prem players not wearing the black bra fitness tracker things anymore, the ones down my old gym are incredible, what they must be able to tell you at that level must be mad 

There will be a man at Leicester who can explain fully what happens to Jamie vardys body work rate and performance if he eats a jaffa cake in the 60th minute 

Edited December 22, 2019 by villa4europe

[sne]

Barcelona and Spain absolutely used EPO or blood doping for a number of years while working with Dr Eufemiano Fuentes. I have zero doubt about it.