Seat68 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Am I missing something here. 50 quid and you get dinner, breakfast and accomodation for 2 weeks. Thats exceptional value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I paid the extra £12.50 for the VIP ticket. I get to burn a pile of books and ride around in a little tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I paid the extra £12.50 for the VIP ticket. I get to burn a pile of books and ride around in a little tank. No **** pleasing you remoaners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Seat68 said: Am I missing something here. 50 quid and you get dinner, breakfast and accomodation for 2 weeks. Thats exceptional value. It was being subsidised by some rather grassroots people, that’s multimillionaire grassroots people 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 In other related news, Corbyn says if there is a 2nd referendum then he may vote leave dependant on the WA (he's speaking personally) so can we put that “he's changed” nonsense to bed now, thanks as he's not considering the other option, you know the one that really protects jobs and services Quote Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn indicates he could vote leave in a new referendum on Britain's EU membership https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-vote-leave-second-brexit-referendum-a8826776.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) Edited March 17, 2019 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, bickster said: In other related news, Corbyn says if there is a 2nd referendum then he may vote leave dependant on the WA (he's speaking personally) so can we put that “he's changed” nonsense to bed now, thanks as he's not considering the other option, you know the one that really protects jobs and services https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-vote-leave-second-brexit-referendum-a8826776.html Corbyn is a complete and utter word removed at the end of the day, hate him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 hours ago, bickster said: It’s the stupidest things that give you pleasure sometimes. It should be noted this was sent hours after the march started “But, don’t despair. For an additional donation of just £79.99 you can join the ‘support regiment’ and receive a ‘leave means leave pack’ ahead of our triumphant arrival in London The pack includes: A bright pissy yellow vest leave means leave car bumper/mobility scooter sticker Signed A5 photos of Nigel Farage, James Goddard and Yaxley-little-legs £5 Wetherspoons voucher* (£5 off bill if a total spend exceeds £100) A ‘We Are Nigel’s Knights’ (W.A.N.K) pin badge Union Jack poncho Access to exclusive Paul Joseph Watson video content and 20% off your first order of ‘Brain Force Plus’” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I am very confused why people - particularly people who support a second referendum! - appear to be angry about Labour being seemingly prepared to whip in favour of an amendment that would make the WA dependent upon passing a second referendum. Corbyn's comments are a restatement of Labour's official position, ie that they favour a 'jobs-first Brexit' which is essentially code for remaining in a customs union at minimum, but leaving the EU. Corbyn needs to keep those members of the parliamentary Labour party who want to leave on board, which cannot be done if he has already committed one way or the other. This is best understood as a final encouragement of May to change the WA in ways that reflect Labour priorities but would be acceptable to Brussels. The time when Labour will?/would? have to make an actual decision is after May gets her WA passed and the Kyle/Wilson amendment also passes. Second-refers are closer than they have been before to the thing that they say they want, yet still seem to be mad about it (I don't actually expect them to get what they want, because I expect the Kyle/Wilson amendment to fail, but we shall see). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I am very confused why people - particularly people who support a second referendum! - appear to be angry about Labour being seemingly prepared to whip in favour of an amendment that would make the WA dependent upon passing a second referendum. Corbyn's comments are a restatement of Labour's official position, ie that they favour a 'jobs-first Brexit' which is essentially code for remaining in a customs union at minimum, but leaving the EU. Corbyn needs to keep those members of the parliamentary Labour party who want to leave on board, which cannot be done if he has already committed one way or the other. This is best understood as a final encouragement of May to change the WA in ways that reflect Labour priorities but would be acceptable to Brussels. The time when Labour will?/would? have to make an actual decision is after May gets her WA passed and the Kyle/Wilson amendment also passes. Second-refers are closer than they have been before to the thing that they say they want, yet still seem to be mad about it (I don't actually expect them to get what they want, because I expect the Kyle/Wilson amendment to fail, but we shall see). It's exactly the right approach, and I've been saying for a while that it's the only solution to the deadlock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: It's exactly the right approach, and I've been saying for a while that it's the only solution to the deadlock. It does have a lot to recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: a 'jobs-first Brexit' Repeat after me U Knee Corn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 17, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I am very confused why people - particularly people who support a second referendum! - appear to be angry about Labour being seemingly prepared to whip in favour of an amendment that would make the WA dependent upon passing a second referendum. Corbyn's comments are a restatement of Labour's official position, ie that they favour a 'jobs-first Brexit' which is essentially code for remaining in a customs union at minimum, but leaving the EU. Corbyn needs to keep those members of the parliamentary Labour party who want to leave on board, which cannot be done if he has already committed one way or the other. This is best understood as a final encouragement of May to change the WA in ways that reflect Labour priorities but would be acceptable to Brussels. The time when Labour will?/would? have to make an actual decision is after May gets her WA passed and the Kyle/Wilson amendment also passes. Second-refers are closer than they have been before to the thing that they say they want, yet still seem to be mad about it (I don't actually expect them to get what they want, because I expect the Kyle/Wilson amendment to fail, but we shall see). I think the difficulty is with Corbyn himself. The Labour party policy is/was to call for a referendum in the event the the Tory Brexit (this WA) doesn't meet their tests (which nothing ever could). So, so far, so good. Yet Corbyn himself is saying that he might vote for May's WA Brexit, rather than the alternative (remain). It's mental. He's spent yonks telling everyone that May's deal is utterly shite (which it is), because it doesn't protect jobs and the NHS and livelihoods and etc. ...and then he's going to vote for it over remain. Not that long ago he was saying that he believes sort of 7/10 remain is better than leaving. As @Dr_Pangloss says, "Corbyn is a complete and utter word removed". The bloke is completely unfit to be a party leader. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, blandy said: I think the difficulty is with Corbyn himself. The Labour party policy is/was to call for a referendum in the event the the Tory Brexit (this WA) doesn't meet their tests (which nothing ever could). So, so far, so good. Yet Corbyn himself is saying that he might vote for May's WA Brexit, rather than the alternative (remain). It's mental. He's spent yonks feeling everyone that May's deal is utterly shite (which it is), because it doesn't protect jobs and the NHS and livelihoods and etc. ...and then he's going to vote for it over remain. Not that long ago he was saying that he believes sort of 7/10 remain is better than leaving. As @Dr_Pangloss says, "Corbyn is a complete and utter word removed". The bloke is completely unfit to be a party leader. This is the situation: last week, a majority of MP's rejected an amendment which would have brought about a second referendum. If you want an amendment that brings about a second referendum to succeed, then you have to persuade some of those MP's who voted against it last week to vote for it this week. This is an unavoidable fact of reality. That is a problem, because for many MP's it is extremely obvious that a second referendum is a trojan horse for Remain, and they don't want to Remain. As such, it is important that Labour maintain strategic ambiguity until after the vote about their plans, if they want the amendment to pass. There is no path to success in the vote without bringing the Smeeth's and Lewell-Buck's and Spellar's with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: for many MP's it is extremely obvious that a second referendum is a trojan horse for Remain, and they don't want to Remain I take issue with this bit, the vast majority of MPs want to remain, it's just that there's rather a lot of Tories who would rather not be seen to be helping us remain, respecting the referendum and all that guff that really means, I want to try and stay on the greasy pole. There are a few Labour MPs in a similar boat but I don't thnk they face quite the same pressures from their local parties. Oh and Kate Hoey but that's slightly different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, bickster said: I take issue with this bit, the vast majority of MPs want to remain, it's just that there's rather a lot of Tories who would rather not be seen to be helping us remain, respecting the referendum and all that guff that really means, I want to try and stay on the greasy pole. There are a few Labour MPs in a similar boat but I don't thnk they face quite the same pressures from their local parties. Oh and Kate Hoey but that's slightly different I'm not trying to be rude, but we don't need to rely on vague guesses and intuitions here; 334 MP's - an absolute majority - voted against a second referendum last week. Some of them have to be persuaded to change their vote this week, or the Kyle-Wilson amendment fails. Here are some tweets from the Labour 'no' votes in that division: Etc etc. These people have publicly committed to voting against a second referendum. You somehow need to persuade these people to change their minds. The alternative is to persuade Tories to vote for it, but that seems very unlikely. The marginal Tory MP in this vote wouldn't be the Boles/Sandbach/Djanogly type who has frequently rebelled against the government; there aren't enough of them. Instead, it would be someone who is not on the government payroll or in a junior ministerial position who has so far backed the government's Brexit strategy in every vote. We know that most Tory members actually want a No Deal, so by backing May these people are already somewhat pissing their constituency party off. Now we want them to go a major step further, and actually vote for a second referendum. I have no idea how this can be achieved, and honestly I don't think it can at all, but one thing I do know for sure is that Jeremy Corbyn shouting from the rooftops 'THIS IS THE CONTINUITY REMAIN CAMPAIGN' would not help matters any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 17, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I do know for sure is that Jeremy Corbyn shouting from the rooftops 'THIS IS THE CONTINUITY REMAIN CAMPAIGN' would not help matters any. I agree. I also see a problem with him saying (up till now) that he thinks May's deal is terrible, and now today saying May's deal is better than remain and better than no deal. I mean it's effectively CONTINUITY TORY BREXIT. Which is no surprise, as he wants a tory Brexit, as I've said multiple times. Labour doesn't, overall, but he does. And his words keep betraying him. For him, it's not about what's best for the people he represents, or what the membership wants, or what the party policy is (if he can help it). It's about the tories wrecking the place, and then he hopes to get in, and do 1970s socialism plus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, bickster said: I take issue with this bit, the vast majority of MPs want to remain I'm inclined to agree with HanoiVillan on this. The vast majority voted to remain. That's not the same as the vast majority wanting to remain now. I'd say there is one thing that you can say there is a majority for - nodding along with the party lines. That's where the original remain majority came from, and why it doesn't exist anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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