The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Stevo985]

5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

are there though ? the polls haven't moved that significantly ( depending on what poll you look at ) ... fairly sure a few posters (remainers ) in here have commented that they believe if it was run again the result would be the same

even know do we know reality v lies ?

the lies were across the board , not just leave ... ok a leaver saying we can just sign a new trade deal tomorrow may turn out to have misunderstood the complexity of the situation , but i don't necessarily buy the line that it was an outright lie ...A trade deal was probably the easiest part of the negotiations , it's not in anyone's interest not to have them .. what was over looked was that  trade deal was then used as a barter for other conditions and thus became complex ... but that doens't necessarily mean it was a outright lie when it was said during the referendum campaign

I'm simplifying things somewhat of course

 

You should be a politician yourself.

[Rodders]

14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

Brexit imo didn't / doesn't need to be the cluster **** it is , it should have been a cross party discussion with all parties  , I think some of the 48% would also have got on board with this  ? 

 

I agree with this, but the option for succeeding seems so theoretical as to be unworkable. Discuss and plan, do not have pointless red-lines. Acknowledge a changing dynamic, and agree a staggered withdrawal over a period of a decade or so. No rush. But that would involve too much discussion and patience.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Lets start with £350mil a week for the NHS on a big red bus and move on from there

I see your bus and raise you World War 3

 

 

YesI know he didn't say it "exactly" like that but the implication was there

[tonyh29]

6 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I would say that that was THE single factor that the idiots thought they were voting for. Disgraceful. 

really .. I thought it was racism ?

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

 

I'm amused you quote youGov , when you ignored their view yesterday regarding the popularity of Boris

 

 

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

That wasn't a promise was it? Only a fool would interpret it as a promise. It had Boris in front of it which is a good clue that it is a load of bollox

What have promises got to do with lies? You said lies.

£350mil a week was a lie, an outright demonstrable lie. We don't pay a net of £350mil a week to the EU, so there never could be £350mil a week for anything. It was a lie, plain and simple

[Stevo985]

Ultimately I want what's best for the country. And I cannot see how Brexit, in any form, is best for the country. And nobody on the leave side seems to be able to give anything close to an answer on that.

It's gone from "we'll have an extra £350 million a week" and "There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside"

to

"Welllll we probably won't run out of food and medicine" and "Well nobody really knows do they?"

 

It's a load of shite.

[tonyh29]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You should be a politician yourself.

I'm too thick to work out if I'm being insulted or not ... proving , maybe you are right with the statement after all  

 

[Xann]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

I'm too thick

Keep typing. It makes you look smarter

[bickster]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

I'm amused you quote youGov , when you ignored their view yesterday regarding the popularity of Boris

 

 

Actually, I didn't,  I just ignored you 

It was the same poll I was referring to saying he'd plummetted, he had. I never said he wasn't still the most popular, So I ignored your response as you clearly were talking to yourself

[ml1dch]

7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I see your bus and raise you World War 3

 

 

YesI know he didn't say it "exactly" like that but the implication was there

Yes, that was a lie - but Boris Johnson wasn't a part of the remain campaign.

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I see your bus and raise you World War 3

 

 

YesI know he didn't say it "exactly" like that but the implication was there

Did people vote to leave in large numbers because they thought it would "Save the NHS" ?

Did people vote to remain in large numbers because they thought WW3 would start if we left?

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Ultimately I want what's best for the country.

Its all crystal ball stuff  . though isn't it  , "

there was a EU bloke gleefully posting the other week with growth projection figures and a league table with the UK at the bottom .. few days later figures were released and the UK economy had outgrown the EU (think it was .6 to the EU .2 )

I guess a lot depends on the long term future of the EU  but let's hypothetically say the EU  has a few major events  , Italy ignore budget spending guidelines a few too many times  , Greece decide enough is enough  , maybe Hungary and Orban ignore the EU Immigration line one time too many , Catalan breaks away from Spain  ... but whatever lets say a few unknown variables happen    ... Would we be better outside of the EU  , or inside should this happen ? The future is not set" as Sarah Connor once said

[HanoiVillan]

18 minutes ago, Genie said:

That wasn't a promise was it? Only a fool would interpret it as a promise. It had Boris in front of it which is a good clue that it is a load of bollox

That's a fine example of what Conservatives used to call 'the soft bigotry of low expectations'. Essentially, you're arguing that Boris just gets to lie about anything and everything - and any lie can be justified by having Boris stand near it - because all of the public should be expected to just know that this guy (who was at the time the former Mayor of London, soon to hold one of the Great Offices of State) is a fool and a joke. 

Meanwhile, presumably other people get held to a rather higher standard. 

[tonyh29]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Actually, I didn't,  I just ignored you 

It was the same poll I was referring to saying he'd plummetted, he had. I never said he wasn't still the most popular, So I ignored your response as you clearly were talking to yourself

you referred to Ch4   not Yougov ?

but hey I'm ignoring you now as payback ..and not because we are going OT 

 

 

[tonyh29]

18 minutes ago, Xann said:

Keep typing. It makes you look smarter

VT consensus  would suggest otherwise

 

[snowychap]

20 minutes ago, Rodders said:

Discuss and plan

Absolutely.

There wasn't enough of this two years ago and there isn't now.

For the referendum to have worked properly then there needed to have been clear pathways that were talked about before it but very few were interested in that.

If there is to be a second referendum then this must not happen. If there is to be a change in position by Parliament then this would also need to be discussed properly, planned and explained accurately to the electorate.

Of course, none of this will happen. People will push their view with whatever claims and inaccuracies best suit it and best get them over the line.

It's all shit.

[HanoiVillan]

47 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Brexit imo didn't / doesn't need to be the cluster **** it is , it should have been a cross party discussion with all parties  , I think some of the 48% would also have got on board with this  ?

the mess of it is on the Tory party , not the 52%  ... 

Well, yes and no. 

Much of the mess of it is on the Tory party, of course, but perhaps (your?) anger should also be directed at those media outlets who certainly didn't help make a 'cross party discussion' by calling people, eg 'enemies of the people' or whatever other dolchstosslegende shit they came up with back in the autumn of 2016. 

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

you referred to Ch4   not Yougov ?

but hey I'm ignoring you now as payback ..and not because we are going OT 

 

 

I referred to both in varying posts. They both showed the same thing... nosedive karma

[Stevo985]

12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Its all crystal ball stuff  . though isn't it  , "

there was a EU bloke gleefully posting the other week with growth projection figures and a league table with the UK at the bottom .. few days later figures were released and the UK economy had outgrown the EU (think it was .6 to the EU .2 )

I guess a lot depends on the long term future of the EU  but let's hypothetically say the EU  has a few major events  , Italy ignore budget spending guidelines a few too many times  , Greece decide enough is enough  , maybe Hungary and Orban ignore the EU Immigration line one time too many , Catalan breaks away from Spain  ... but whatever lets say a few unknown variables happen    ... Would we be better outside of the EU  , or inside should this happen ? The future is not set" as Sarah Connor once said

Again this is the standard response. “Nobody knows what will happen”

a lot of people who are very well positioned to know about this kind of stuff have made assessments of what will happen and it’s always negative. 

Again I can’t see a single thing that COULD mean we’re better off. It’s always just batting away the negatives.