snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 23 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Add 10% to a Miele tumble dryer already at £1000 and most people would go for the £800 Samsung instead. I'm not sure the first claim is correct and why wouldn't the Samsung incur a similar import duty to the Miele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 9, 2017 Administrator Share Posted October 9, 2017 22 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The way the media is portraying it in Germany it seems like they are starting to build up a massive resentment towards Barnier, Verhofstadt (sp) and so on Do you have anything to support this claim? To whom does "they" refer to in that sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: I'm not sure the first claim is correct and why wouldn't the Samsung incur a similar import duty to the Miele? The point is that the Samsung is cheaper in the first place as it's not German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, snowychap said: I'm not sure the first claim is correct and why wouldn't the Samsung incur a similar import duty to the Miele? Basically, people are currently happy to spend an extra £200 because of the extra quality, but if £200 turns into £300 then Miele have to lay off most of their workforce because nobody buys from them anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 42 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Add 10% to a Miele tumble dryer already at £1000 and most people would go for the £800 Samsung instead. tbh I think most people spending £1000 on a tumble drier wouldn't give a hoot about an extra £100 , it's going to be more if start adding 10% on the mid range / low entry stuff that it will really bite fwiw I just bought a Miele tumble drier and it came with a £100 cash back , not saying they would continue such a promotion in the face of 10% tariffs , but these rebates are done through some nifty loopholes best I can understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The point is that the Samsung is cheaper in the first place as it's not German. You what? What I quoted you posting was a claim about the effect of a price change (due to an import duty, I'm assuming) on the demand for a particular product due to a shift in that demand to a similar (but a supposedly/perceived inferior) one. I questioned your thinking on this claim and I also questioned your set up of the situation as to why you didn't also apply the same increase in price (as I assumeed it was due to a rise in import duty) to the other product. Edited October 9, 2017 by snowychap *to a similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Basically, people are currently happy to spend an extra £200 because of the extra quality, but if £200 turns into £300 then Miele have to lay off most of their workforce because nobody buys from them anymore. I got what he was trying to claim but I'm just not sure that he did. I'd also lilke to know why the price of the Samsung in this example won't go up to £880? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2017 Made a mistake of glancing at the Have Your Say on the Been for the article on May telling everyone with concerns about Brexit they're 'doomsayers'. Not sure that's something a PM should say but at this point I think that position is basically just a name tag, she has no authority anymore. On the one hand, hilarious, because it's like concentrated little England impotence distilled (I even saw a 'make Britain Great again!', joy of joys!). Patriotism will make Brexit succeed! I like being paid in patriotism, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. And hungry. But then also sadness. These things attract a certain type of personality so they're not exactly an accurate cross section of society, but still... There's a lot of ignorant, and occasionally stupid people out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 48 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The way the media is portraying it in Germany it seems like they are starting to build up a massive resentment towards Barnier, Verhofstadt (sp) and so on because they are putting their own personal grudges ahead of German exports. Do you think their grudge with the negotiators (which having skimmed the articles in Zeit, Welt and Spiegel doesn't actually exist - although if I should be looking in other publications let me know), extends as far as Sabine Weyand? What do you think her position on German exports is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I've just heard a bod on Sky News describe things as a 'Brexit Fives game'. Was Rackets not available as an analogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2017 I won't rest until there's been a comparison of Brexit to Hungry Hungry Hippos. ...we have to get there eventually, surely? Or will we get interminably stuck on the dumb poker analogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, snowychap said: I questioned your thinking on this claim and I also questioned your set up of the situation as to why you didn't also apply the same increase in price (as I assumeed it was due to a rise in import duty) to the other product. Presumably because at the moment there's no tariff on Miele Dryers because we're in single Market. So that situation will change, but it won't for Samsung, because, the Trade deal between EU and S.Korea is not yet in force and currently doesn't apply to the UK, so no change after Brexit. Therefore no price change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, blandy said: it won't for Samsung, because, the Trade deal between EU and S.Korea is not yet in force and currently doesn't apply to the UK, so no change after Brexit Is that the case? Do import duties arise because of the ownership of the brand or because of the source of the product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Is that the case? Do import duties arise because of the ownership of the brand or because of the source of the product? Yes, according to the interwebs. Source. Most Samsung washer/dryer whatnots are made in S. Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, blandy said: Yes, according to the interwebs. Righto. 28 minutes ago, blandy said: Source. Most Samsung washer/dryer whatnots are made in S. Korea. Are most of those which are exported to the UK made in S. Korea? Edited October 9, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Are most of those which are exported to the UK made in S. Korea? Don't know about washing machines, but Samsung have plants in Romania where they assemble screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 41 minutes ago, snowychap said: Righto. Are most of those which are exported to the UK made in S. Korea? That seems to be the (implied) assumption made in @magnkarl's argument, though whether the detail of the S.Korea/EU trade deal and manufacturing facility locations was in his head when he made the point, only he can answer, Snowy. I guess the general point, rather than the specifics of which washing machine models are made wherever is that the prices of imported goods from nations without a trading agreement in place will not be affected by Brexit (other than because of the plummeting pound) whereas those from inside the EU will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I see we’ve moved away from Mercedes now and are pinning our hopes on Miele to lean on the German government to lean on the EU to get us a good deal. Not so easy to find figures on Miele. But, I have found 5 little bits of information: 1 their German home market accounts for 30% of all there 850,000 washing machine sales 2 their European sales account for 90% of their total worldwide sales 3 they sell more machines to the USA than the UK 4 they sell more machines to China than the UK 5 they sell more machines to Australia than the UK So whilst I don’t have an exact figure, I think it’s fair to extrapolate that they can’t be selling more than 3% of their output to Australia. From that we have to presume they are selling less than 3% to us? Let’s call it 3%. Again, like the car argument, I don’t think they’ll want to jeopardise the EU single market where they sell 87% of their product, to protect the full 3% they sell here. Hopefully I’m wrong. Shall we do Boss aftershave next? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) I would be very surprised if the Samsung home appliances sold in the UK are made in South Korea. I'd hurl money at them being knocked out of a factory in Eastern Europe. Obviously getting bogged down in asides though. The inescapable point remains though... These companies make more money from the EU27 than they do from us, so they'll sorry the big money despite the hit. Edited October 9, 2017 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I see we’ve moved away from Mercedes now and are pinning our hopes on Miele to lean on the German government to lean on the EU to get us a good deal. Not so easy to find figures on Miele. But, I have found 5 little bits of information: 1 their German home market accounts for 30% of all there 850,000 washing machine sales 2 their European sales account for 90% of their total worldwide sales 3 they sell more machines to the USA than the UK 4 they sell more machines to China than the UK 5 they sell more machines to Australia than the UK So whilst I don’t have an exact figure, I think it’s fair to extrapolate that they can’t be selling more than 3% of their output to Australia. From that we have to presume they are selling less than 3% to us? Let’s call it 3%. Again, like the car argument, I don’t think they’ll want to jeopardise the EU single market where they sell 87% of their product, to protect the full 3% they sell here. Hopefully I’m wrong. Shall we do Boss aftershave next? Whats the breakdown on krautrock? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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