ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Yawn. The Agreement is not yet in force. Yes it is. It's just not been fully implemented. It's been provisionally applied since summer 2011. But either way, your original assertion that "the EU doesn't have a deal with (South Korea)" is nonsense. It doesn't matter, your arguments are bunkum whether they do or not (they do), so it doesn't really change a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: Yes it is. It's just not been fully implemented. It's been provisionally applied since summer 2011. But either way, your original assertion that "the EU doesn't have a deal with (South Korea)" is nonsense. It doesn't matter, your arguments are bunkum whether they do or not (they do), so it doesn't really change a great deal. We have a provisional deal about agri equipment and big industrial equipment. Direct consumers aren't affected much by that. The agreement you are thinking about has not been applied to the UK yet, but most other EU states has ratified it. I don't know what other sort of source I could give you than the gov.uk page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, magnkarl said: We have a provisional deal about agri equipment and big industrial equipment. Direct consumers aren't affected much by that. The agreement you are thinking about has not been applied to the UK yet, but most other EU states has ratified it. I don't know what other sort of source I could give you than the gov.uk page. So, we can both agree that anybody claiming "I used S. Korea because the EU doesn't have a deal with them" is either lying or doesn't know what they are talking about? As they unequivocally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Anyway, tariffs aren't going to be the reason this circus collapses. When there's no food in supermarkets, not many people are going to be stressing over whether their washing machine cost £800 or £1,100. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Samsung's washing machines for Europe are made in Kaluga in Russia, which ostensibly doesn't have a deal with the EU. There's duty on Samsung's machines entering the UK because they're either made in Vietnam or in Kaluga. That's fine. Thanks for the clarification on Samsung washing machines. Quote The point of the argument was that a hard brexit (which I am against by the way), will hurt high end brands like Miele or Mercedes because luxury brands that are already competitive in price (Infinity, Lexus, Samsung, Tesla, Chevy) will be at least 10% cheaper. You mean 10% cheaper still? How price elastic is the demand for a Miele or a Mercedes? Are Miele and Samsung sufficiently close substitutes for you to hang the argument you're attempting to make on? Edited October 9, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 Oh Oh, Climbdown. UK will agree to be bound by ECJ rulings during transition period Someone call the fire brigade, Greasy-Moggs ears are on fire, on no wait its just steam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 57 minutes ago, snowychap said: My point is that glib comments about 'most people would' even when correctly (if it was) applied to a specific situation are pointless when there may/will be all sorts of different (changes of) situations at play with regard to tariffs and non-tariff barriers. Oh, sure. I responded to your original question about Samsung washer dryers, and South Korea not having a ratified trade agreement in place with the EU and definitely not with the UK.rather than any general comment about overall trade swings and roundabouts. It'll be worse IMO after we leave, that much is Crystal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I'm sure there's a reason you're not counting the one signed in 2009. Quote The European Union–South Korea Free Trade Agreement is a provisional free trade agreement between the European Union (EU), its member states and South Korea. The agreement was signed on 15 October 2009.[2] The agreement has been provisionally applied since 1 July 2011. The ratification process was partially completed on 13 December 2015, pending ratification by Italy and Korea.[3] "The agreement is not yet in force" in the United Kingdom[4][5][6] and its future is yet to be clarified in the light of the United Kingdom's Withdrawal from the European Union. here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 As an aside, the prices of Miele and Samsung goods have been affected by the >10% slump in the value of the pound, so they're all more expensive, now, aren't they? It's why the UK has gone from the best to the worst performing EU economy since the Brexit vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 I'm predicting we'll be the worlds 7th largest economy before long, that's something to celebrate yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just popping back in to wave my 'it'll never happen' flag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, blandy said: here Yes, exactly as I said. It not being fully in force in the UK (my post at the top of this page), doesn't mean the EU doesn't have an agreement with South Korea, which was the erroneous claim that needed correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It not being fully in force in the UK (my post at the top of this page), doesn't mean the EU doesn't have an agreement with South Korea, which was the erroneous claim that needed correcting. Not really, because 2 things. Because it's not in any part in force for the UK and because also, the import of goods into the UK was what the example magnkarl gave was addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, darrenm said: Just popping back in to wave my 'it'll never happen' flag It's not our choice anymore if it does, so it'll happen. The question is how awful the self inflicted gunshot wound will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 56 minutes ago, ml1dch said: When there's no food in supermarkets I don’t think you can accuse someone of lying and then come up with a whopper lie like this ... what next a bus with this slogan on it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I'm confident German business is currently urging their political classes to lobby the EU to give us a good deal that doesn't impact on trade. After all, why wouldn't the Germans, the Dutch and the Swedes want to continue as a net contributor the EU, let us off paying anything, then compete on equal trading tariff terms with us to sell goods to the Italians and Spanish and Polish. They can't give us the deal we want, it would be suicide for the very concept of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, bickster said: I'm predicting we'll be the worlds 7th largest economy before long, that's something to celebrate yes? As one of the ones to overtake us would be India currently the fastest growing economy in the world and predict to overtake the U.K. reagardless of Brexit and the other nation would be France ,whose economy has pretty much mirrored ours for the past 40 years , sometimes in front , sometimes behind .. arguably currently in front due to sterling Then your prediction is kinda misplaced ... actually arguably it’s a fail as you still seem to think we can see off Brazil and other emerging economies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, blandy said: Not really, because 2 things. Because it's not in any part in force for the UK and because also, the import of goods into the UK was what the example magnkarl gave was addressing. I've seen the page you've linked to and the subsequent links to gov website pages but then there are pages like this: Quote link This publication is about the reciprocal preferential trade agreement between the EU and South Korea which entered into force on 1 July 2011. Quote link 3.2 Free Trade Agreements In July 2011, the EU-South Korea FTA came into force. This is the most comprehensive FTA ever agreed between 2 parties. It’s predicted to be worth at least £500 million per annum to the UK economy. 97% of tariff barriers between Korea and the EU will be eliminated within 3 years and EUR 1.6 billion of duties for EU exporters will be abolished annually. Quote Trade tariff Commodity information for 8451210000 This tariff is for 9 October 2017 Import measures and restrictions Country Measure Value Council Reg Start Date Korea, Republic of (South Korea) (KR) Tariff preference 0.00 % D0265/11 01/07/2011 I'm a little confused and, now, a lot bored. Edited October 9, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Chindie said: It's not our choice anymore if it does, so it'll happen. The question is how awful the self inflicted gunshot wound will be. Arlene says hard border in NI is a red line. Cue more Tory infighting. Confidence and supply on a knife edge. Dover says there will be 15 mile queues HMRC says computer systems for dealing with customs work increase years away I can see it tearing the Tories apart when it becomes apparent it's impossible to leave the SM and CU with our current infrastructure and geography and they have to break the news but can't for fear of riots and tanking popularity etc. That bits already started. Just how I see it going. I may be completely wrong or misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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