meregreen Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: I’m clearly getting my message wrong here, which is my fault. Of course advertising influences. An advert will persuade you to buy a Renault instead of a Citroen, a VW instead of a Skoda. But how many buy a car that didn’t want to buy a car? If you are minded to buy some deodorant, and Sure says it doesn’t leave marks and Lynx says several women will pay to give you blow jobs, you might well chose to buy the Lynx. If you don’t then get paid for blow jobs, did you fall for a lie? For a blow job I might change my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 All of the people I know who voted out, and I mean all, quoted the claims made by the leave campaign, that are now being shown for the bullshit they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, meregreen said: For a blow job I might change my vote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, meregreen said: All of the people I know who voted out, and I mean all, quoted the claims made by the leave campaign, that are now being shown for the bullshit they were. And they had previously stated they were remain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 I was a confirmed Europhile and intended to vote remain, but voted Leave, when a pub landlord and a poundshop fascist told me the fish wanted to be British. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: And they had previously stated they were remain? I expect the many of them would previously have been undecided. Then the lies convinced them to vote remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I was a confirmed Europhile and intended to vote remain, but voted Leave, when a pub landlord and a poundshop fascist told me the fish wanted to be British. I previously didn’t know a huge amount about what the EU was or how it worked, after senior politicians including the future PM made many multiple claims that life would largely be unchanged but we’d have more trade deals, less red tape, the same access go Europe, better control of our borders and more money for the NHS I decided to vote leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 I suspect we’ve done this to death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Just now, chrisp65 said: I suspect we’ve done this to death. I suspect you can’t justify the bold claim there were no lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Just now, Genie said: I suspect you can’t justify the bold claim there were no lies I suspect even though I’ve asked several times over a couple of days, you haven’t found anyone that can evidence they changed their mind because of a bus advert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I suspect even though I’ve asked several times over a couple of days, you haven’t found anyone that can evidence they changed their mind because of a bus advert. Even though I told you a friend of mine said the main reason he voted leave was to better fund the NHS. And many, many others cited that as the reason they voted leave… but but they might have voted leave anyway for another reason and therefore makes the lie not a lie Edited November 13, 2021 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Genie said: Even though I told you a friend of mine said the main reason he voted leave was to better fund the NHS. And now you can't even get before a doctor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I was a confirmed Europhile and intended to vote remain, but voted Leave, when a pub landlord and a poundshop fascist told me the fish wanted to be British. You’re getting very wrapped in people “being remain” and swapping to leave - but I imagine the much more common position was “I don’t care or give a shit” to “oh, well extra money for the NHS sounds nice so… yeah, maybe leave”. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 More winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 13/11/2021 at 20:45, chrisp65 said: I suspect even though I’ve asked several times over a couple of days, you haven’t found anyone that can evidence they changed their mind because of a bus advert. Why would they have to change their mind though. If their initial views are influenced by lies, then that proves the lies had an effect. Incidentally, lies about Europe as espoused by Bill Cash and Farage etc have been propagated for literally decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Genie said: More winning Yeah, you can see a situation where Amazon bully their way through to lower fees which smaller retailers don't have the power to do so Amazon get to be even more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, meregreen said: Why would they have to change their mind though. If their initial views are influenced by lies, then that proves the lies had an effect. Incidentally, lies about Europe as espoused by Bill Cash and Farage etc have been propagated for literally decades. Yeah, I can see that’s a much stronger argument on the issue of lies. I would still say that I don’t know of anyone that voted leave that had previously had ‘no opinion’ my suspicion would be that they were natural leave voters for whatever reason. As you suggest, probably a few decades of newspapers hating the French will have done as much damage as anything during the actual campaign. But that long slow burn of Farage half truths, I still struggle to categorise them as straight lies. Beholden to unelected EU officials? Well, I certainly didn’t get to vote for lots of the people deciding lots of the policy direction, and they are European, so it’s not a big fat lie. I know we can argue I voted for the people that voted for the people that selected the policy makers AND a proportion of them would have been Europeans from the UK AND its also true I haven’t voted for anyone in the House of Lords or for Queen Liz. I guess I just don’t see slogans about a projected future as ‘lies’. It’s why I’ve never bought a car in order to become more sexy. I guess some people that bought Ford Capri’s were lied to by Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 17, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 12/11/2021 at 15:20, HanoiVillan said: Europe-as-an-issue stays on the agenda, and that 'how to deal with the European question' further destabilises the Labour party between 'idealists' and 'pragmatists'. Tbh I think that applies to more than just the Labour party. Plenty of tories were pro remain, too. The extremes - hard left and hard right were more "leavey" and the less extreme were more "remainy", is maybe a generalisation, but I think it's supportable - the right wanted sovereignty and tax dodges and worker exploitation and the left wanted nationalisation and some kind of socialist utopia unconstrained by EU rules on budget deficits and so on. Whatever, though, Brexit wasn't a thing that divided along party lines in terms of voters, particularly. It was more North and Countryside v London and metropolitan and young v older, though there are obviously exceptions to those generalisations, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 13/11/2021 at 21:45, chrisp65 said: I suspect even though I’ve asked several times over a couple of days, you haven’t found anyone that can evidence they changed their mind because of a bus advert. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public-39967/ Why not take Dominic Cummings word for it? It's pretty clear that NONE of what was promised was in any way anything other than total bullshit aimed at manipulating people to vote leave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2021 51 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I guess I just don’t see slogans about a projected future as ‘lies’. It’s why I’ve never bought a car in order to become more sexy. I guess some people that bought Ford Capri’s were lied to by Ford. If people voting leave didn't think what the leave campaign was saying was true, then why did they vote leave? just for the shits and giggles? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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