The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[one_ian_taylor]

35 minutes ago, sidcow said:

At what point does re-joining become a credible election strategy?

One of the most grating things about Brexit is that we won't  get a better deal than we had if we did want to join now. And some of the conditions for joining will be too hard  for I suspect a majority to stomach 

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

The cross-party consensus is the thing that the other countires will need to see to make them interested. As they aren't going to entertain the idea if there's a possibility they'll be dealing with a Government that wants to leave again five years later.

Totally. That’s why I reckon a couple of elections- to cover the Tories changing their minds again. They can’t be trusted and aren’t trusted by the EU until or unless they completely change their whole little England mentality.

[Enda]

 

The EU can’t do business with these clowns.

[Captain_Townsend]

I used to buy in a lot from the UK but since Brexit it is just too expensive. I am not sure people within the UK truly appreciate just how it all looks to people outside the UK. Not to mention populist Tories insulting countries that did a lot of business with the UK.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I used to buy in a lot from the UK but since Brexit it is just too expensive. I am not sure people within the UK truly appreciate just how it all looks to people outside the UK. Not to mention populist Tories insulting countries that did a lot of business with the UK.

I’d hate to think what an absolute shit show we look like to the rest of the world.

[sidcow]

22 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’d hate to think what an absolute shit show we look like to the rest of the world.

Doesn't matter. They need us more than we need them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently. 

[Xann]

5 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I am not sure people within the UK truly appreciate just how it all looks to people outside the UK.

You're quite correct.

It took a sustained campaign of disinformation from people that bank in tax havens to get us here.

In the US for Trump then the UK for Brexit, the Mercer family went about buying and scraping our online information. Profiling us individually, in an attempt to manipulate us en masse.

The national broadcaster was nobbled.

Quote

The BBC has been criticised after broadcasting archive footage of Boris Johnson laying a wreath on Remembrance Sunday in 2016 instead of showing this year’s ceremony, during which the prime minister laid the flower arrangement upside down at the foot of the Cenotaph.

The corporation was accused of “covering up” Mr Johnson’s blunder when it broadcast the 2016 footage on BBC Breakfast on Monday morning in news coverage of Sunday’s commemorative event.

The mistake caused conspiracy theories to form among social media commentators, who suggested the swap was deliberate, and done to spare the prime minister’s blushes as the election approaches.

The BBC apologised, and insisted the old clip was broadcast purely by mistake.

Independent

The chances of that bolded part being true are remote. The clips are in an individual job folder and they're dated. Also the cameras on the job would have been synced. You'd have had to have gone looking for a shot where he wasn't pissed at the Cenotaph, and then edited it in manually.

A lot of people still don't admit they were led down the garden path as we've descended into rot and ruin.

We do look proper thick abroad. We're an absolute shit show and laughing stock.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Xann

[Enda]

In a continuing series of Brexiteers having very little idea about international relations, we now have this all-time classic from Steve Baker MP.

 

 

[chrisp65]

In his defence, how could the Minister of State for Northern Ireland be expected to know anything about flags and whether or not any of them carry any importance or symbolism in Northern Ireland. Luckily, it’s not a big deal over there.

[bickster]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

In his defence, how could the Minister of State for Northern Ireland be expected to know anything about flags and whether or not any of them carry any importance or symbolism in Northern Ireland. Luckily, it’s not a big deal over there.

Well he does go to bed every night and watch Flaghub on his iPad maybe he has his small death before he gets to N

[ml1dch]

Downing Street flags department is on fire at the moment.

 

[chrisp65]

I mean, for all the money spent by government, for all the apparent public school education of spads, it does appear that even now they’re no more than a bunch of amateurs having a bit of a bash at it.

You can only draw the conclusion they’re either genuinely incompetent or can’t be arsed, or both. I really think its both.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

I mean, for all the money spent by government, for all the apparent public school education of spads, it does appear that even now they’re no more than a bunch of amateurs having a bit of a bash at it.

You can only draw the conclusion they’re either genuinely incompetent or can’t be arsed, or both. I really think its both.

When you see them in the TV you’re left with this feeling that this small group of men and women are running the country on their own, but there’s literally 10’s of thousands of people supporting them… how do they get it so wrong? Do they never refer to their staff when making major decisions? 
 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

When you see them in the TV you’re left with this feeling that this small group of men and women are running the country on their own, but there’s literally 10’s of thousands of people supporting them… how do they get it so wrong? Do they never refer to their staff when making major decisions? 
 

Yep, there are floors and floors of office blocks in London and Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh and all over. As you say, tens of thousands of staff and a good number of them, their job is literally to deal with this sort of thing.

I know someone that worked on a trade delegation pitch for weeks, complaining it wasn’t enough time. They worked crazy hours producing briefing papers and facts and stats all put together in a way it could be used as an audio visual presentation or briefing pack. It could be read, watched, listened to and it was fact checked by people in department and outside and removed and completely neutral on the subjects. They were paid to fly out to a country to ‘present the presentation’ to the politician. Whilst there, it was decided by the politician that his natural style was better suited to him just being nice and winging it and winning a charm offensive. It wasn’t Johnson, it was a lesser figure. But it was that same mindset. Spend a shit ton of money, ignore the outcome, wing it, later criticise the crazy expense of these civil servant back office types who do lord knows what.

Just that absolute unfounded belief in their own ability.

I guess that’s what the parents paid for when they put them through that school.

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yep, there are floors and floors of office blocks in London and Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh and all over. As you say, tens of thousands of staff and a good number of them, their job is literally to deal with this sort of thing.

I know someone that worked on a trade delegation pitch for weeks, complaining it wasn’t enough time. They worked crazy hours producing briefing papers and facts and stats all put together in a way it could be used as an audio visual presentation or briefing pack. It could be read, watched, listened to and it was fact checked by people in department and outside and removed and completely neutral on the subjects. They were paid to fly out to a country to ‘present the presentation’ to the politician. Whilst there, it was decided by the politician that his natural style was better suited to him just being nice and winging it and winning a charm offensive. It wasn’t Johnson, it was a lesser figure. But it was that same mindset. Spend a shit ton of money, ignore the outcome, wing it, later criticise the crazy expense of these civil servant back office types who do lord knows what.

Just that absolute unfounded belief in their own ability.

I guess that’s what the parents paid for when they put them through that school.

They were elected to lead, not to read. Or watch. Or listen.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Davkaus

[Genie]

I mentioned it the other day, but the home office has around 36,000 staff alone. That blew my mind. 

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

I mentioned it the other day, but the home office has around 36,000 staff alone. That blew my mind. 

You realise that isn't just people advising James Cleverly  

It includes all the Immigration staff, the passport office staff, Border Force (lol), cocky watchmen in public buildings...

Just as a quick comparison, given the relative similarity in population. The French Interior Ministry employs 160,000

[Genie]

16 minutes ago, bickster said:

You realise that isn't just people advising James Cleverly  

It includes all the Immigration staff, the passport office staff, Border Force (lol), cocky watchmen in public buildings...

Just as a quick comparison, given the relative similarity in population. The French Interior Ministry employs 160,000

When I get back off holiday I’m lucky if there’s more than 2 passport control desks open so that can’t be a huge proportion   

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

When I get back off holiday I’m lucky if there’s more than 2 passport control desks open so that can’t be a huge proportion   

Just in the issuing and checking of credentials, the passport office employs over 4,000 people across the UK, more at peak times as they often have temp jobs available

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Just in the issuing and checking of credentials, the passport office employs over 4,000 people across the UK, more at peak times as they often have temp jobs available

So good that we're taking control of our borders. Phew