Mark Albrighton Posted December 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) So apparently Corbyn IS tabling a no confidence motion in May then? Edit - I was waiting for one of you who actually understands this stuff to post something about it, but you’ll have to make do with me. Edited December 17, 2018 by Shropshire Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) People were waiting for him to issue a motion of no confidence in the government, which is a formal motion which would call for a vote in the house, potentially resulting in a general election. What he's actually done is make a meaningless comment about having no confidence in May, not the government. This is more empty posturing from Corbyn. He's winding down the clock, the same as May, happy to offer no genuine opposition to Brexit, hoping to swoop in afterwards. Whether this is because he doesn't think a motion of no confidence in the government would work, or because he's fully on board the Brexit train and doesn't give a toss what his party thinks...Who could say. Edited December 17, 2018 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: People were waiting for him to issue a motion of no confidence in the government, which is a formal motion which would call for a vote in the house, potentially resulting in a general election. What he's actually done is make a meaningless comment about having no confidence in May, not the government. This is more empty posturing from Corbyn. He's winding down the clock, the same as May, happy to offer no genuine opposition to Brexit, hoping to swoop in afterwards. Whether this is because he doesn't think a motion of no confidence in the government would work, or because he's fully on board the Brexit train and doesn't give a toss what his party thinks...Who could say. . . . I mean, this is quite likely to be exactly the issue, isn't it? And why would you have a vote of confidence you're sure you're going to lose? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: . . . I mean, this is quite likely to be exactly the issue, isn't it? And why would you have a vote of confidence you're sure you're going to lose? Well that's a bit unfortunate, given that Parliamentary maths means that isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. So in the meantime, they just indulge in irrelevant House of Commons ephemera like today and hang around until 2022? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2018 It's just a pressure tactic. Better than nothing I guess. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, Davkaus said: People were waiting for him to issue a motion of no confidence in the government, which is a formal motion which would call for a vote in the house, potentially resulting in a general election. It is pointless having a no confidence vote in the government that you know is almost certain to fail as it will result in strengthening May. By tabling a no confidence motion in May Labour are trying to back her into a corner as if it is not heard they can accuse her of running scared as she knows she will lose it and if it is heard then you'd think given that 100+ MP's had no confidence in her as Conservative leader then they can no confidence in her as Prime Minister and would therefore vote accordingly. It is very specifically around her not allowing her deal to be voted on this week. I don't know if by tabling this motion it ramps up the pressure and she will now put it to the vote. It will be rejected but it at least allows Parliament to move on and debate other options. What May is doing is stalling and hoping that by wasting another 4 weeks it will scare some MP's in to voting for her deal for fear of the clock running out and ending up with no deal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2018 Calling the vote on her is a way of pressuring her. Rejecting it, as she has, makes it appear she's fearful. Accepting it and winning gains her very little. Accepting and losing looks awful politically. To add to that Corbyn had threatened the full no confidence vote if she rejected the vote. That vote she would certainly win, because theres not a Tory in the House voting against themselves, and certainly not to assist Corbyn, who is literally the great Satan. And the same is evidently true of the DUP. But it's not a great look for Governments to face no confidence votes, and Labour are a bit buggered as to options to do much against the government if May is playing the games she is, so it at least looks like Labour are doing something, even if it's feeble. Now it's up to Corbyn to decide if the full vote was an empty threat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2018 Had the vote been accepted there's easy political points to be won. May wins a House confidence vote when she had a completely terrible party vote result last week and the easy response is 'she's not good enough for 117 Tories to lead their party, but they think she's good enough to lead the country'. There's also an argument that the vote would give cover to Tory/DUP MPs who would vote down her Brexit deal. They may feel pressured in the meaningful vote to go with the party loyalty, at the death, but this vote cloud be argued as showing they were in support of the PM, but not her deal, give them a bit of a shield. Perhaps. All moot though because of course she has chosen to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) I think the government mean that they're not going to play Corbyn's silly games. They've cerrtainly been playing silly games of their own. I'll be interested to see just what form the returned to meaningful vote debate and subsequent vote take (and the business motions concerning it).* I guess the business for the week beginning 7th Jan will be set out by Leadsom this thursday? *Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if it's not quite on the terms that everyone assumes it will be, i.e. just carrying on where they left off. Edited December 17, 2018 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Well that's a bit unfortunate, given that Parliamentary maths means that isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. So in the meantime, they just indulge in irrelevant House of Commons ephemera like today and hang around until 2022? The UDP position may change. They have said if her deal goes through, they will no longer support her. That may or may not be true. But things are changing the other way, and it is reported that some tory Brexiters are now willing to vote for her deal as the only practical way of leaving. She will also attempt to split off the right wing of Labour to vote for her deal. Several of them will be delighted to do so if they can be given political cover, eg "the national interest" or some such bollocks. The usual suspects. This is why Corbyn has been trying to get the substantive motion to a vote, while May has taken the ball to the corner flag. She hopes that by prolonging the period before the vote, she can bring pressure to bear on MPs (which will, as is traditional, include threats of exposing sexual peccadilloes, mistresses, dodgy tax returns, undeclared gifts etc), so she can win more support for her one and only position. Against that, she may lose some support if it undeniably looks like she is creating massive chaos to protect a very temporary political position and if it is thought voters have begun to notice, more tories will adopt the Ken Clarke position of calling her out for an incompetent bullshitter. All to play for. Fasten your seatbelts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 17, 2018 The Nationalist parties, Greens and Lib Dems table amendment to Corbyn's motion to make it a formal No Confidence in Government matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chindie said: The Nationalist parties, Greens and Lib Dems table amendment to Corbyn's motion to make it a formal No Confidence in Government matter. If they can't themselves bring a motion of no confidence, as we have been told, how can they amend another motion to have the same effect as bringing a motion which they can't move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just shows that it's all party politics for them. 117 have no confidence in her as Tory leader but they'll back her PM (as Tory leader) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Please excuse the link to the Scum's politics editor: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted December 18, 2018 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 hours ago, markavfc40 said: It is very specifically around her not allowing her deal to be voted on this week. I don't know if by tabling this motion it ramps up the pressure and she will now put it to the vote. It absolutely isn't, though Mark. look at Corbyn's own words, as HV posted Corbyn said he do this meaningless thing if May didn't announce the date for the vote. She announced the date for the vote and then he did the meaningless thing anyway (perhaps because the date isn't prompt enough for him? though imprecise language is hard to judge "by the end of next week" or something is clear, prompt (given the 2 week break is not)). It's typical Corbyn, playing to his fanbase on twitter or youtube or wherever they dwell whilst doing eff all of any useful stripe whatsoever. The pair of May and Corbyn are like schoolchildren squabbling. One refusing to let anyone else play and the other one forever saying they're going to "get" the first one, but never actually following up on it. Pair of the most useless apologies for leaders we've ever had the misfortune to come across. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2018 Government looking at upping No Deal prep. Thumbscrews on Tory Remainers tightened in completely unrelated development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2018 No Deal is pants on head moronic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2018 It's infuriating the amount of people spouting "JUST LEAVE" with absolutely no knowledge of what that entails and the knock on effects. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: No Deal is pants on head moronic. Yet we are hurtling towards it, all because of Theresa May and the Conservative Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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