The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[PaulC]

No chance of a 2nd referendum now

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215?reveal_response=yes

Quote

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”.

Government responded:

The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on 27 June, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected. We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations.

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

No chance of a 2nd referendum now

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215?reveal_response=yes

 

There was never going to be a second referendum as a result of a petition, but the chance of one happening is not 0% (though it is low). It would occur if it seemed politically advantageous to whoever forms the next government. 

[PaulC]

Yes but Theresa May will be the best PM and has already said there wont be another election until 2020 and there will be no 2nd referendum. Brexit means Brexit.

[BigJim]

18 hours ago, snowychap said:

It doesn't take a genius to guess what people are trying to convey when they use the term so it didn't need explaining.

I asked, "What utter cock came up with the term ['generation snowflake']?" I'm going to take a punt that it wasn't Fiona Meredith in the Belfast Telegraph.

Has whoever it is stopped patting themselves on the back yet so that they can take the applause that they think they deserve?

Fiona Meredith is wildly off the mark anyway if she thinks this phenomenon is something new to today's "younger generation."   I clearly remember a faction of students at Birmingham University going into revolt to ban Enoch Powell from speaking there around 1970.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

4 hours ago, PaulC said:

Yes but Theresa May will be the best PM and has already said there wont be another election until 2020 and there will be no 2nd referendum. Brexit means Brexit.

I dunno,  weren't the London riots on her watch and look at the state of Calais.  These have her DNA all over it,

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, PaulC said:

Yes but Theresa May will be the best PM and has already said there wont be another election until 2020 and there will be no 2nd referendum. Brexit means Brexit.

I'd say you're very likely to be right. 

However, I dispute your certainty. Have the last three weeks gone exactly how you expected in British politics? If not, do you think there's a possibility - at least a remote one - that the next three months might not go as you expect?

[PaulC]

23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'd say you're very likely to be right. 

However, I dispute your certainty. Have the last three weeks gone exactly how you expected in British politics? If not, do you think there's a possibility - at least a remote one - that the next three months might not go as you expect?

Yes its possible and also she has got type 1 diabetes so whether that will impact her with all the extra stress I don't know. Also when I said best pm I meant next 

Edited July 9, 2016 by PaulC

[HanoiVillan]

Haha I didn't even notice that typo!

[HanoiVillan]

Time for one factoid beloved on this thread to disappear:

EU referendum: youth turnout almost twice as high as first thought

'The turnout among young people aged 18 to 24 in the EU referendum was almost double the level that has been widely reported since polling day, according to evidence compiled at the London School of Economics.'

[PaulC]

Still lower than the average but yes a huge difference to what Sky said

[Xann]

We're having to renegotiate access with countries whose aviation authorities are 'guided' by their own national airlines.

Our airlines are expecting a kicking.

BA are partially Spanish owned, so they might be ok?

Others are looking to move operations abroad.

 

[tinker]

Suspect most of northern European air traffic to the USA fly's through our air space , they need to agree a deal as well. 

 

[chrisp65]

I'm fairly sure that eventually we will end up with a mutually beneficial set of guidelines on air traffic. I'm also fairly confident they will sort out the banking with a new agreement and some sort of europe wide agreement. I'm fairly sure the taxes on steel will be agreed so they are more or less fair in both directions. At some point in the future we will have a sensible arrangement for all our millions of pensioners on health care in Spain.

Can't help feeling it would be easier to have some sort of big overall agreement with all the countries covering all aspects of our relationship with europe.

Still, at least we will have our country back. No more Poles and Bangladeshis. No more Americans and Kiwis. No more Arabs and Germans. Got to be worth it. God save the Queen and all of her democracy.

I bet I'm already 50p up on the deal. Providing of course I ignore the letter I got yesterday from Aviva telling me my savings have been frozen and I won't be able to withdraw any money until further notice. 

[darrenm]

What bothers me is that as time goes on and it becomes more apparent that leaving the EU was definitely the wrong choice, the leavers still can't admit they were wrong. All you get is 'it's done now, make the best of it' or 'let's see how it goes'.

[blandy]

7 hours ago, darrenm said:

What bothers me is that as time goes on and it becomes more apparent that leaving the EU was definitely the wrong choice, the leavers still can't admit they were wrong. All you get is 'it's done now, make the best of it' or 'let's see how it goes'.

I disagree with the context and content of that, Darren. Firstly some already have said that they voted leave as a protest, and wish they'd voted the other way now. Secondly they didn't all vote out for the same reason. Where immigration was the reason they will never be wrong (in their eyes) because...immigration.

Next, once someone has accepted and rationalised something, it's really really difficult to convince anyone that they have been lied to, that what they believe is a lie. It's the way our brains work. So the point there is that wanting them to admit they were wrong is futile and not worth bothering about.

Lastly, they might be right. Leaving might be better than staying in. That's not my guess, but I might be wrong.  It may end up creating a change in the UK voting system, it may beneficially change the way Westminster treats people, it may result in the EU becoming more accountable, it may improve the way immigration is handled. So no one can ever really be shown to be right or wrong. The only thing that can be shown is where individual aspects, or consequences, turn out as predicted.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Providing of course I ignore the letter I got yesterday from Aviva telling me my savings have been frozen and I won't be able to withdraw any money until further notice. 

Yes yes yes yes that's all very important, but sit back and feel the freedom. 

[Davkaus]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

 

Lastly, they might be right. Leaving might be better than staying in. That's not my guess, but I might be wrong.  It may end up creating a change in the UK voting system, it may beneficially change the way Westminster treats people, it may result in the EU becoming more accountable, it may improve the way immigration is handled. So no one can ever really be shown to be right or wrong. The only thing that can be shown is where individual aspects, or consequences, turn out as predicted.

If people had voted to leave based on plans with those goals, I'd cut them some slack.

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Providing of course I ignore the letter I got yesterday from Aviva telling me my savings have been frozen and I won't be able to withdraw any money until further notice. 

Is that because your investment in Aviva is based on speculation in the property market?

[chrisp65]

55 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Is that because your investment in Aviva is based on speculation in the property market?

I'll be honest I don't know what it was based on, but from a quick swat up I think it must have had property as part of the portfolio. It certainly wasn't some specific London property investment pack. It was a steady eddie investment in a company I'd heard of that I've been putting money in to for several years. I'd have put the money in the bank if the interest rate hadn't been 0.0000001%

We need the money in October so I'm not sweating too much yet. But this could mess up a few years of planning in quite a significant way. The money wasn't for me either, it was for university, so I'm not being a total self centered arse worried about his lovely money. 

 

[blandy]

4 hours ago, Davkaus said:

If people had voted to leave based on plans with those goals, I'd cut them some slack.

Each to their own, that's fair enough. Thing is many people (including me) voted for reasons other than what was advertised. I had decided to not vote at all, based around all of them lying and a massive dislike of the people leading both sides of the campaigns - Osborne, Cameron, Pog, Johnson, Farage, Leadsom.....

In the end, I held my nose and voted remain, not with any enthusiasm, but because the Leave people's lies were bigger and madder and they were more transparently as mad as a box of frogs and because of the turmoil leaving will create.

So basically a whole ton of people, me included, maybe did what they could to understand what was being said, what was the truth, what might happen in the future, how that might affect them and their families and jobs etc. and then took a punt based on those things, plus political viewpoints, protest against whoever or whatever and a whole load of stuff that was nothing to do with the referendum directly (racism, in some cases, for example). We're none of us super-beings who understand everything and can see the future and in the absence of clear, reasoned, honestly presented information how the heck can "we" be blamed or need slack cutting? Yes some people are utter dipsticks, but most aren't, but the biggest numpty of the lot is Cameron.