CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yes, principally because I think being in the EU is the only thing stopping the Tories turning the UK into a horrid USA-lite. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Jeremy Corbyn a Tory then CED?........was Tony Benn a Tory?............both anti-EU. I get fed up of the lazy arguement, the constant insistance that if you are anti-EU, then you are a little Englander Tory.Its not the case, it is an important debate that needs a serious debate.For me, we either become a federal state of Europe, with on parliament for all Europe, or we just have trade agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Just now, ROTTERDAM1982 said: Jeremy Corbyn a Tory then CED?........was Tony Benn a Tory?............both anti-EU. I get fed up of the lazy arguement, the constant insistance that if you are anti-EU, then you are a little Englander Tory. I think you've read things in to his post that weren't in any way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 All I know is its costs us a fortune to be in it. I'm not a big fan of politics but at least we know who's trying to run our country. What I disagree with is a bunch of million pound a year faceless bureaucrats making decisions for us. The EU crew, actually remind me of Fifa, As we don't really know where all the money in this invisible union goes. Much of it in the pockets of the people who run it i'm guessing. An after that little rant I guess you know I want out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) im nowhere near educated enough regarding this subject but from what ive read and all that id rather us be out of he EU so i voted out. Edited February 16, 2016 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 has anybody voted against their established VT persona yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: All I know is its costs us a fortune to be in it. I'm not a big fan of politics but at least we know who's trying to run our country. What I disagree with is a bunch of million pound a year faceless bureaucrats making decisions for us. The EU crew, actually remind me of Fifa, As we don't really know where all the money in this invisible union goes. Much of it in the pockets of the people who run it i'm guessing. An after that little rant I guess you know I want out! Actually it costs the nation around £120 million per year - roughly £2 per head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Actually it costs the nation around £120 million per year - roughly £2 per head. not that im doubting you but do you have a source for this .... I'd just like to know you haven't lifted them from a pro Europe web page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: has anybody voted against their established VT persona yet? Im guessing that just as I wouldn't enter the WWF thread as it holds zero interest to me that most of VT will have looked at this thread title and thought politics sod that I'd rather everyone thought I was ghey and they went off and posted in the wrestling thread instead ... Thus leaving this thread to the regular entrenched politics thread goers whose personas we already know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 4 hours ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said: Jeremy Corbyn He's an interesting one as I gather he is anti EU and yet is leading his party towards an IN vote does he have any of his principles left ? He'll be voting to continue Burnhams NHS privatisation next ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 11 hours ago, tonyh29 said: be prepared for lots of "little Englander" comments (edit : I see it's already begun whilst I was writing my response , I like a flippant comment or three myself , but the EU in / Out does need a proper discussion at some point where the bendy bananas rule gets left outside ) It isn't a quick answer , but I've tried to give one so apologies if what I'm saying doesn't appear to make sense , i'll get back with more detail though if anyone wants to counter my brief (and possibly flawed points) I voted leave , Europe isn't out of the woods yet and every indication is that it could still go down the toilet ( actually us leaving could be the finally spark that causes it to burn ) , but I think we are better equipped to avoid the resulting carnage if we are out of it .. arguably our economy has recovered and come out the recession stronger than the EU states , partly I suspect as we have our own currency and aren't hampered by the Euro when it comes to setting economic policy You'll hear various arguments about jobs and tariffs but I for one don't believe that the German car market (for example) is going to turn it's back on what is one of it's biggest markets .. ditto other industry's that import to the UK , there are other countries not in the EU who are trading perfectly well from outside so it already shows it can be done Immigration control - your going to hear a lot of scaremongering on this subject but I think beyond the screeching the argument is that our info structure can't cope with the influxes of people ... be it schools , be it the NHS (again its subjective but from some sources it appears that the NHS was kinda improving , however it wasn't equipped to deal with the extra pressure that immigration put on the system ,) , be it welfare ( one of the current things I learnt is that someone from the EU comes to work in the UK and leaves their children in their home country .. the are entitled to claim child benefit from the UK for these children .... I'm sure there are reciprocal agreements in place but even so that has to be a flaw in the EU system surely ? though it's one that Cameron is trying to peg to the standard of living in the country of origin ... I suspect Immigration will come down to being the major decision maker in the IN/Out vote .. it shouldn't be , but I think ultimately your Facebook "share if you like" mentality aren't clever enough to grasp any economic arguments , a picture of an ISIS flag or a Muslim wanting to impose Sharia law on us all scare story will be enough to get their X in the leave box that's enough to start with as a anecdote one thing that I do find kinda amusing is that with my wife being Hungarian we have a lot of Hungarian friends who all live here in the UK , indeed all have British passports through marriage ... When it's come up in conversation , they all say they think we should leave the EU and they will vote that way .. and mainly they cite immigration as the reason ..go figure From the reports in the papers tomorrow the easten block countries are completely against that being stopped , myself I don't understand how any country should be paying child benefit to kids not in the actual country.It's farcical 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nabby said: From the reports in the papers tomorrow the easten block countries are completely against that being stopped , myself I don't understand how any country should be paying child benefit to kids not in the actual country.It'scical Interestingly on the radio phone in tonight driving home a Polish lady said that we should pay the child support money for the child in x country as it would be cheaper than if the child lived here in the UK and taxpayers had to pay for its education not convinced she's on to an argument that will persuade the out campaigners there if I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 What level of shit is the discussion if it's about the amount of child benefit that goes overseas? I mean **** Jesus H - talk about getting distracted on minutiae. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Interestingly on the radio phone in tonight driving home a Polish lady said that we should pay the child support money for the child in x country as it would be cheaper than if the child lived here in the UK and taxpayers had to pay for its education not convinced she's on to an argument that will persuade the out campaigners there if I'm honest Her argument comes down to you will pay for our kids one way or another ... Funny thing is those eastern european countries arnt so welcoming when it comes to immigrantion coming to thier country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: What level of shit is the discussion if it's about the amount of child benefit that goes overseas? I mean **** Jesus H - talk about getting distracted on minutiae. I suggest you take up your annoyance with our Overlords in the EU as they are the ones currently making it a big deal i guess it's a step up from bendy bananas if nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 56 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: not that im doubting you but do you have a source for this .... I'd just like to know you haven't lifted them from a pro Europe web page You were absolutely right to doubt it, because it was totally wrong! The actual figure is per week, not per year 'The economy has also been a rich seam for InFacts. We took Daniel Hannan, the Tory MEP, to task for saying that Britain sends £350 million a week to Brussels. The actual figure last year was £250 million. What’s more, our farmers, scientists, regional development projects and the like get millions back. When you net all that off — as well as our share of what Brussels spends on international aid and which we count towards our own target of helping poorer countries — the EU costs us £120 million a week. That’s less than £2 per person. Incidentally, that is almost exactly what Norwegians pay for their access to the EU’s single market while not being a member of the bloc. The difference is that we get to vote on the club’s rules, while Norway doesn’t.' http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/hugo-dixon-nailing-the-eu-lies-on-both-sides-of-the-brexit-divide-a3180631.html In my defence . . . nah, not much defence, that was really stupid, sorry! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I suggest you take up your annoyance with our Overlords in the EU as they are the ones currently making it a big deal What the **** are you on about? My annoyance is with posters in this thread and the content of their posts and how relevant child sodding benefit is to the EU and the referendum about it. Edit: stop trying to blame people in other countries for the shit that emanates from the UK. Edited February 17, 2016 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, snowychap said: What the **** are you on about? My annoyance is with posters in this thread and the content of their posts and how relevant child sodding benefit is to the EU and the referendum about it. Edit: stop trying to blame people in other countries for the shit that emanates from the UK. You might see one or two references to what's on the table in terms of our renegotiations ... Child welfare payment is one of them .... and as 5-live went to the trouble to devote a phone in to it and Poland , Hungary . Slovakia and Czech republic (as reported in the right wing mouthpiece The Guardian , for example ) specifically seem to have spoken out about it I think it's perfectly acceptable to raise it in part of the discussions in this thread ... That said , I didn't see any fixation with the subject at hand , I saw 2 people discussing what it was all about , discussing something that is on the table as part of the "deal" .....your exasperation should be pointed at those in this thread that wanted to derail any attempt at a discussion surely ? As previously referenced , better to discuss something that is actually "on the table" than talk about made up bollocks like bendy bananas By the way , the use of overlords was a joke reference making fun of people like Farage (and with a hint of Kent Brockman , it always helps if you read that word in his voice ) but I've bought some neon ink for the Internet and I promise to use it gong forward to advertise any hints at humour and irony so you don't burst any more blood vessels ... as my friend from Oman would say , eyes on the ball not the player Edited February 17, 2016 by tonyh29 Removed the opening insult because it doesn't help matters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: You were absolutely right to doubt it, because it was totally wrong! The actual figure is per week, not per year 'The economy has also been a rich seam for InFacts. We took Daniel Hannan, the Tory MEP, to task for saying that Britain sends £350 million a week to Brussels. The actual figure last year was £250 million. What’s more, our farmers, scientists, regional development projects and the like get millions back. When you net all that off — as well as our share of what Brussels spends on international aid and which we count towards our own target of helping poorer countries — the EU costs us £120 million a week. That’s less than £2 per person. Incidentally, that is almost exactly what Norwegians pay for their access to the EU’s single market while not being a member of the bloc. The difference is that we get to vote on the club’s rules, while Norway doesn’t.' http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/hugo-dixon-nailing-the-eu-lies-on-both-sides-of-the-brexit-divide-a3180631.html In my defence . . . nah, not much defence, that was really stupid, sorry! Some interesting rebuttals in that link ( even if it is only from one side of the camp) ... But that's the sort of info that needs to get out there if the debate is going to be a good one ....we had Farage on QT last week kinda getting an easy run maybe they should have stuck someone like Hugo Dixon on the show instead of a comedian ( much as I quite like him ) I guess it's early doors yet and the real campaign and debate hasn't begun yet , so there is still time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 17, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2016 9 hours ago, tonyh29 said: He's an interesting one as I gather he is anti EU and yet is leading his party towards an IN vote does he have any of his principles left ? He'll be voting to continue Burnhams NHS privatisation next ... Love it. If he sticks to his own views, he's out of touch and undemocratic. If he goes with a wider party line, he's weak and unprincipled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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