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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?  

81 members have voted

  1. 1. As the title suggests. I guess the 2 sides of the debate will get lots of airtime over the next few weeks. What do the people of VT think?

    • Remain a member of the European Union
      45
    • Leave the European Union
      36


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4 hours ago, blandy said:

I don't agree. He's pretty much known for saying what he thinks, regardless of the wisdom or reward for doing so. I think he is unenthusiastic about Yurp, but overall sees it as less bad being in, than out. He likes the worker protection and environment protection etc. but not so much the undemocratic nature of the place and the tendency to pander to big business.

Wouldn't that amount to a benign dictatorship - undemocratic but with laudable policies?

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43 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 so to be clear he doesn't go with the wind except when he has to  but then it's called pragmatism 

I do think there's a difference, yes. 

If he wasn't party leader, he'd probably be less likely to go against his instincts. But he is. He HAS to take his MPs views into account  - at least until he's purged the Party of political undesirables and bourgeois counter revolutionaries  ;). But more to the point, I think he genuinely sees that there are pros and cons about the EU. 

"Going with the wind" would be a fair criticism of many of the New Labour mob, who would literally do ANYTHING to feather their own nests. The Tories of course, are less embarrassed about such things. 

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I've marked this thread to lock after it's been open for a week. This is to protect the poll results. Please feel free to start a part 2 once it locks. Thanks

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5 hours ago, blandy said:

I'm intrigued as to why you think that.

Faceless EU - well yes, but why is that labour's doing?

Boris UK - again, why is that labour's doing? 

But I'm baffled why any of that is Labour's doing

 

I don't think those two things are Labour's fault. I think the fact that they are the only two choices and that there isn't a decent third choice or third voice is Labour's fault.

We've ended up with an obsessed tory party given a free run to spout all it's euro prejudices. There should be a Labour party able to put forward a good strong case as to why europe is good (or bad) for the everyday 'honest hard working' family folk of the UK. Either to fight for us in getting the right things negotiated (not protection for the City of London), or to explain the risks of a UK left to the tories. There should be a Labour party capable of winning an election so that potentially if we do leave Europe we won't be left to wolves, a few dozen connected MP's that will happily sell us down the river to China and the USA.

There should be somebody explaining that 'closing the borders because we are full' is not going to happen if we leave the EU. Not unless India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Australia, Nigeria, Jaimaca, South Africa and the USA  join the EU anyway. 

Somebody needs to ask why our border controls and customs are so poor that IDS believes we are at risk of French terrorists being able to bring guns and bombs through the tunnel? Shouldn't we be tackling this today? Not after June? It's pathetic. 

Where is Labour? It's knackered.

 

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Gotcha - and I completely agree, too, Chris.

[With the possible exception that "There should be a Labour party able to put forward a good strong case as to why europe is good (or bad)" - I don't actually think anyone thinks it's a completely clear cut thing - there are good reasons to leave and good ones to stay, and whoever is involved it seems a very polarised "debate" such as there is one. I'd like to hear politicians espouse the pros AND cons and then summarise why one outweighs, for them, the other. In other words a reasoned and considered analysis and persuasive approach.]

 

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On 2/21/2016 at 23:09, Marka Ragnos said:

Stay in Europe -- and please dissolve the dreadful monarchy.

A 'like' isn't sufficient for this . . . I think I might put it on the family crest. 

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10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

A 'like' isn't sufficient for this . . . I think I might put it on the family crest. 

There is a touch of irony that the person who put forward the Europe only costs £2 per week per family is against something that only cost each family 26p a week :)

Edited by tonyh29
Found the figure now £2
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Just now, tonyh29 said:

This a touch of irony that the person who put forward the Europe only costs £x per week per family is against something that only cost each family 26p a week :)

LOL! Touche. 

I dislike the Royal Family for non-economic reasons though. 

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Correct. It isn't about money. More to do with beliefs. Every child born here should be able to aspire to be our Head of State. The role shouldn't be reserved for the first born of one somewhat dysfunctional family, regardless of their abilities. We do somewhat digress from the topic though.

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I'd happily pay 27p a week to be moving on beyond having kings and queens and princes and fairy godmothers. It's a bit silly really.

I mean I like a spangly hat as much as the next person, but come on.

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10 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I'd happily pay 27p a week to be moving on beyond having kings and queens and princes and fairy godmothers. It's a bit silly really.

I mean I like a spangly hat as much as the next person, but come on.

but at the risk of going waaaaay OT the President of France and Italy cost their respective tax payers a lot lot more and they don't come with a spangly hat though Hollande does have the juicy affairs to read about in Le Tous les jours Express

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