Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

[tonyh29]

Fun begins tomorrow after the cabinet meeting... Will the outers have to resign from the cabinet ?

Gove , Smith , Grayling and Patel likely to be in the out camp 

[OutByEaster?]

I wonder if it'll be described in the same way as the Labour reshuffle?

 

[tonyh29]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wonder if it'll be described in the same way as the Labour reshuffle?

 

Tbf they were sackings followed by protest resignations ... I don't know how it's going to go down tomorrow but presumably they won't be sacked , it's my understanding they have to resign over a difference of policy with the govt line 

( I say this  from when I wrote to my MP about  extortionate airport tax and he wrote back and said as a cabinet minister the only way he could disagree with govt policy was to resign and he wasn't prepared to on this instance )

[HanoiVillan]

57 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Fun begins tomorrow after the cabinet meeting... Will the outers have to resign from the cabinet ?

Gove , Smith , Grayling and Patel likely to be in the out camp 

I don't think anyone will need to resign will they? I thought it had been decided that this would be a vote of conscience and people would be able to campaign as they see fit. 

There may be one or two minds changed . . . perhaps some will really view this as a triumph. Perhaps one or two others will feel the wind is blowing towards 'remain' and adjust accordingly. 

But in reality, Cameron was always going to have a night of triumph when the deal got done. There's still more than four months before the date pencilled in for the referendum, and he'll be judged by the result of the vote, not what happened tonight. 

Still, better a victory than a defeat tonight, so he can go to bed happy. 

[Awol]

So the choreographed "bust up" has run its course and huzzah for Dave, sticking it to Jonny Foreigner in an all night defence of UK interests.

Anyone who swallows that BS needs a good kick in the swingers.

Cameron asked for nothing and was given nothing because nothing was ever on the table to be negotiated. I've never rated him and this farce has proved every word the lefties have ever said about him being a PR man with all the substance of a soggy   wa*k sock. 

The stuff that matters like border control, completing the single market, the ability to veto EU legislation etc. was nowhere in sight. He promised fundamental treaty change, he's delivered nothing that can't be achieved through domestic legislation and now expects the public to swallow it. Worse this token effort can be squished by the EU Parliament after our vote with no recourse. It's a joke. 

Ideal scenario now (IMO) is a vote to leave in June immediately followed by Dave and George resigning. The pair of useless dog fondling shysters shouldn't disgrace the offices they hold for a single second longer.

[sharkyvilla]

I think the undecideds will vote to stay, even if ultimately this deal doesn't amount to much (it's almost impossible to get anything off the EU).  The in campaign will have a lot more certainty about what it means than the out and people in general will stick with the status quo.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, Awol said:

 I've never rated him and this farce has proved every word the lefties have ever said about him being a PR man with all the substance of a soggy   wa*k sock. 

. He promised fundamental treaty change, he's delivered nothing .... It's a joke. 

Ideal scenario now (IMO) is a vote ...in June immediately followed by Dave and George resigning. The pair of useless dog fondling shysters shouldn't disgrace the offices they hold for a single second longer.

 the quoted bits, yes, very much so.

[Rodders]

protection for the City we're screwed, so so screwed. As if that unregulated heap of shit need any more help. Are there any obstacles those **** have to obscene profit building?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

It'll be interesting to see the impact the referendum has on UK politics if it turns out that only the English fancy getting out, and the rest of the UK votes to stay. I'm not sure the what the likelihood of that outcome is, but I don't think it is out of the realms of possibility.

 

[Wainy316]

One thing I'm trying to grasp:

A lot of people's gripe with being in the EU is people being able to come over and claim benefits yadda yadda. What I'm wondering is, if this is a rule imposed on us by the EU then is it not the same across the board?

Could I not go and enjoy Sweden's generous benefits?

[chrisp65]

Well fair play to Cameron, my red line was that I wanted the big banks and financial services companies in the City of London to be protected from interference from Europe. Boom, we got it.

Now, do I run with Cameron, or Gove?

[OutByEaster?]

43 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Could I not go and enjoy Sweden's generous benefits?

Absolutely. It's a huge issue across Scandinavia. They've got excellent education, healthcare and social services, some of the best in the world, and Sweden in particular is having real issues with the rise of the far right on the back of increased immigration and pressure on those services. The same is true of Denmark where a traditionally socialist government has moved to a centre right model on the back of anti-immigration feeling. Even in unlikely sounding places like Finland there are fractious issues.

There's a strange notion that the UK is the best country in the world and everyone wants to come here which simply isn't true - Scandinavian countries are some of the worlds leaders in quality of life and social policy and are a magnet for those looking for a new place to live.

What's a pity (in my mind) is that where the EU should be taking the best of the societies within its group and extending the policies that provide great quality of life across its entire territory, it in fact does the opposite - working to break down the policies of nations focused on quality of life for a more profitable American corporate model. If the EU was set up to do the former rather than the latter we'd have a more evenly balanced Europe where there wouldn't be pockets of nations that were more attractive than others and we'd be in a better position to deal with immigration.

 

[Wainy316]

So could I hypothetically work in Poland and claim child benefits for kids back home?

[AshVilla]

I'll be voting leave on the 23rd of June

[foreveryoung]

The faceless EU would never have agreed to anything that makes a big difference. For example, that our laws can with over ruled with national security in mind is a huge issue.

[YLN]

On 16/02/2016 at 12:36, chrisp65 said:

So I'm a big fat don't know, with a leaning to wanting to remain in a reformed europe.

I read reformed corpse. Carry on

[Nabby]

1 hour ago, Wainy316 said:

So could I hypothetically work in Poland and claim child benefits for kids back home?

Yes that seems to be the case 

Polish Child Benefit is due to increase to 500 Zoty around 87 per month for 2 children , the UK equivalent is £147

Poland is increasing it as they have reduced fertility rates one of lowest in EU and to stimulate their economy.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Nabby

[Pilchard]

Politically, I don't know what I think about this.

But I will find it very hard to vote for a cause that both Nigel Farage and Michael Gove back.

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, Wainy316 said:

So could I hypothetically work in Poland and claim child benefits for kids back home?

Child benefit in the UK is higher than that in Poland, so presumably it would be disadvantageous to do that.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, Pilchard said:

...I will find it very hard to vote for a cause that both Nigel Farage and Michael Gove back.

This is quite a powerful argument, for me, too. With both sides doing the fear mongering stuff (much of which I don't believe) we're kind of left with thin facts and evidence to go on, and so other factors have a bigger impact. By an absolute massive margin, the Leave lot has a lead on humungous bell ends being on their side. IDS, Grayling, Galloway. Garage and so on. If they're in favour of something, then it's pretty safe to say it must be a mad idea.