terrytini Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, TRO said: There will be some red faces on here if he does get backing and it still doesn't work out. I have no reason to doubt him, but equally fail to see the euphoria too, so early. when he has the opportunity to bring in his own players and sets about building a team, I will have more to go on. The rest of the season will also be a barometer. certain games so far have been encouraging, others not so much, but that's understandable under the circumstances. His persona lends itself to a studious deep thinking man, with an inner strength and that could be so, but equally could be a well rehearsed stereotype that appeals to some who favour the unknown or the quiet silent type who say very little......it's as long as it is short. The jury is still out for me....there is much to be done and much to see for me. i wish him well, like any manager and if he is successful my team will be too, so my objective will be met. As an aside, I'm never convinced by this. To me if he - or anyone else - is really a good Manager (*) they shouldn't need their 'own players', aside from someone to be their man on the inside. Its partly this belief that results in every change of Manager needing a long process of him bedding in, then getting rid of 'not his' players, then acquiring 'his' players who in turn need to be bed in ! By which time people are fed up of things not having improved, so the Manager gets sacked, etc. (*or maybe, more importantly, following on from one !) E.g ; You'll like this one TRO - Tony Barton didn't need his 'own' players !! (Question ; Is this because (a) the guy BEFORE him was such a good Manager who had chosne well, or (b) because Barton was such a good Manager he had no trouble working with what he had, or (c), because in a way they WERE his players ?) All three ? For me, I am getting close to thinking Garde has done enough to warrant 'a go', though I agree it is to early to decide, and way too early to be anywhere close to being sure. And that is because he is doing it with' NOT' his players..('it' being the apparent forging of some character, desire, way of playing, certainty of style, harder to beat, and some decent football in places) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I would say it'd be difficult being put in charge of a squad of 25 or however many people who are used to a certain way of playing and then moulding them into a different style you want them to play. You would need time to get to know each person, what their strengths etc are, you need time to bed in regardless of "who's players they are." whereas if you inherit the team, and bring in your "own players" they're in the same situation that you are. You'll hopefully have found players that already play in a similar way that you want the team to. Its completely illogical to expect someone to be put in charge of a team and get positive results on the first day. Yes it happens, but it's a lot more complicated and involves a lot more factors than some are making out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On 2/10/2016 at 08:19, thunderball said: Lol. Jim, Jonah and a few others used to be very anti Garde, not sure where they stand now or maybe have stopped posting here because of the vigorous defence Garde now gets? But let's not be too tough on Mike and Blaster, we should value all opinions however I think in general the responses they have provoked have been well made. Mike and Blaster, please keep posting, all opinion is valid and valued, this is not a love in! For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Michael118 said: For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success. Like? If pullis or allardyce are in your list then don't reply. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I will say though he looks committed and will try anything in his power to get things right. I just don't see the outstanding qualities which would set him apart from other managers in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, villan_007 said: Like? If pullis or allardyce are in your list then don't reply. I named 3 earlier in this thread and others we could have appointed instead of Sherwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Michael118 said: He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. I don't think I'm really comfortable with this argument. We could get someone in to dig us out of a hole quickly, and maybe keep us up. But then what? Do we get rid of the survival specialist to get someone in who can build a half decent club? Stick with them in the summer so they can bring in 'their' players? IMO, bringing in someone who can get us out of a hole quickly would lead a series of Sherwood type appointments and inevitably, relegation pretty damn swiftly. We don't need someone to get us out of a hole quickly. We need someone who can rebuild the football side of the club into a competitive force again. That will take time, and we'll likely be relegated during the transition. But, if done properly, we should come back up quickly enough- plenty of evidence of teams in the top flight now who have built properly and come up before. Whether Garde is the right person to lead us through it, I don't know. At the moment though, he looks like he is to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Godders said: I don't think I'm really comfortable with this argument. We could get someone in to dig us out of a hole quickly, and maybe keep us up. But then what? Do we get rid of the survival specialist to get someone in who can build a half decent club? Stick with them in the summer so they can bring in 'their' players? IMO, bringing in someone who can get us out of a hole quickly would lead a series of Sherwood type appointments and inevitably, relegation pretty damn swiftly. We don't need someone to get us out of a hole quickly. We need someone who can rebuild the football side of the club into a competitive force again. That will take time, and we'll likely be relegated during the transition. But, if done properly, we should come back up quickly enough- plenty of evidence of teams in the top flight now who have built properly and come up before. Whether Garde is the right person to lead us through it, I don't know. At the moment though, he looks like he is to me. Why do we need to get relegated to rebuild? Allardyce or Pulis would have kept us in the premier league and given us stability and a platform from which to build on when Lerner sells. The way it is now, we are on our way to the championship and may not come back. Also I don’t think Allardyce is just a “survival specialist”. I think he can do more than that and with some backing may have been able to build something here. Edited February 12, 2016 by Michael118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted February 12, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Michael118 said: For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success. It's funny because mediocre at best is the perfect summation of the CV's of people like Allardyce and Pulis. Like literally, they have never been anything better than mediocre 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Given that Pulis's side is barely able to get a shot on target - 1 in the last four games or something - I hardly think he'd be much good to us with our 'strikeforce'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: It's funny because mediocre at best is the perfect summation of the CV's of people like Allardyce and Pulis. Like literally, they have never been anything better than mediocre You have to be better than mediocre to make it in the premier league as long as Allardyce and Pulis have. What Allardyce's achieved at Bolton was a lot better than mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Michael118 said: I named 3 earlier in this thread and others we could have appointed instead of Sherwood. That's instead of Sherwood, not instead of Garde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Michael118 said: You have to be better than mediocre to make it in the premier league as long as Allardyce and Pulis have. What Allardyce's achieved at Bolton was a lot better than mediocre. While that's debatable, that was more than a decade ago. David O'Leary finished 4th around the same time. Football has moved on significantly from then, but I can't really say the same for Allardyce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 There's only so much you can do with squads though. Remi has only done what Big Sam or Pulis would've e.g. tightened up our defence considerably so we can starting getting points and the odd win on the board. Sunderland aren't scoring many more goals than we are are they, they've had plenty of 1-0 defeats since Big Sam came in and the nuff said about West Brom and their goalscoring. We have little upfront so it's an uphill struggle to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: That's instead of Sherwood, not instead of Garde. Allardyce, Guidolin, Bielsa. Edited February 12, 2016 by Michael118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Allardyce, Guidolin, Bielsa. Allardyce started at Sunderland in October. Garde started with us in November. He wasn't available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 12, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted February 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Allardyce, Guidolin, Bielsa. Allardyce was unavailable and you have nothing but a hunch to say Guidolin or Bielsa would have been better than Garde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If we had Bielsa or Guidolin, he'd probably mention Garde 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Allardyce started at Sunderland in October. Garde started with us in November. He wasn't available. Go back and read over the last few days of this thread. I would have let go of Sherwood earlier to get Allardyce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Michael118 said: For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success. Like we did with Sherwood. The problem with Sherwood, Allardyce and Pulis is that they are only a temporary fix, and will only involve us in annual relegation battles. The others you mention, who knows how good or bad they would be. With Garde, I think we have a chance of breaking the cycle and building something lasting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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