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The Rémi Garde thread


KJT123

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10 hours ago, terrytini said:

As an aside, I'm never convinced by this.

 To me if he  - or anyone else - is really a good Manager (*) they shouldn't need their 'own players', aside from someone to be their man on the inside. Its partly this belief that results in every change of Manager needing a long process of him bedding in, then getting rid of 'not his' players, then acquiring 'his' players who in turn need to be bed in !  By which time people are fed up of things not having improved, so the Manager gets sacked, etc.

(*or maybe, more importantly, following on from one !)

E.g ;

You'll like this one TRO - Tony Barton didn't need his 'own' players !!   (Question ; Is this because (a) the guy BEFORE him was such a good Manager who had chosne well, or (b) because Barton was such a good Manager he had no trouble working with what he had, or (c), because in a way they WERE his players ?) All three ?

For me, I am getting close to thinking Garde has done enough to warrant 'a go', though I agree it is to early to decide, and way too early to be anywhere close to being sure.

And that is because he is doing it with' NOT' his players..('it' being the apparent forging of some character, desire, way of playing, certainty of style, harder to beat, and some decent football in places)

 They were Barton's players though, he was the assistant to Ron Saunders and had helped him put that side together and worked with them all on a daily basis for ages. 

I find the idea that you shouldn't need your "own players" a bit strange. Name one great footballing side that wasn't constructed by a manager with a vision of what they wanted to do who went out and found the players necessary to do it? Even the Ajax side that last won the Champions League was built with kids from their youth set up, they don't *have* to be huge transfers, they do have to be the managers choice to fit into the system they want to play on the pitch, and be the right blend mentally to fit together and all the other million little things that has to be right.

 

Even in the European model where a head coach comes into a big side, they have input on who the sporting director actually tries to buy for them. I can't think of many successful sides that weren't put together over at least a couple of years. Even Ranieri at Leicester had the summer to help build this current Leicester side based on what they had last season...

To some degree Garde has done exactly what you are implying though, none of these players are "his" yet he's managed to change the playing style, tactics, improve the fitness (which is weird seeing as Timmay was giving them double training for months) and start to improve results. I think it would be insane to let him go in the summer, starting over with someone else is going to seriously harm any chance fo bouncing straight back up IMO.

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5 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Like we did with Sherwood. The problem with Sherwood, Allardyce and Pulis is that they are only a temporary fix, and will only involve us in annual relegation battles. The others you mention, who knows how good or bad they would be.

With Garde, I think we have a chance of breaking the cycle and building something lasting.

I was against the Sherwood appointment. I thought he would fail. I think he succeeded in the short term because his style was so different to Lambert's and the players and fans responded to that. Most importantly Benteke responded to it and the rest is history.

Allardyce or Pulis would have been very different appointments to Sherwood. They are both proven and obviously capable. I think they would have offered us safety from relegation in general and with Allardyce possibly more. 

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5 hours ago, Michael118 said:

 

For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success.

I think this is the bigger problem, and I agree there were managers around that could have dug us out of that hole quickly, but then i suspect after 6 months of hoofing it and scraping by many posters on here would be criticising Lerner for appointing a manager that only played limited football, and after an initial lift the club would find itself in much the same problem come next season.

The purchasing that took place in the summer clearly didn't turn out how we expected, but of the players that came in the ones i criticise most would be the ones with Premier League experienced players that you would expect to lead by example from the start. I would argue that players like Lescott and Richards have only started to perform as expected since Garde came in, and I am of the opinion that had Garde been appointed at the time Sherwood was, we would not be in the mess we are now even with the same personnel. Sherwood messed up his substitutions during the Leicester game, and following that he criticised the team, and at that point i think he lost them, and lost us a chance of surviving,

I think Garde believes that Lerner wants a long term plan and supports his ethos, obviously further spending will be required in the summer, and clearly some of the current players will leave, but i do think Garde will be here next season, and i think that will be to the long term benefit of the club.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

Are you an avid follower of Italian football? @Michael118

I'm not an avid follower of Italian football. 

I watch a lot of premier league and other leagues occasionally.

I am very into psychology, sport psychology and spirituality.

I am sure enough in my views to share them with confidence.

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Just now, Michael118 said:

I'm not an avid follower of Italian football. 

I watch a lot of premier league and other leagues occasionally.

I am very into psychology, sport psychology and spirituality.

I am sure enough in my views to share them with confidence.

Just seems a little odd that you'd suggest Guidolin as a good alternative without being a big follower of Serie A and watching his teams play. He seems to have had some success during his career but has also bounced around from job to job, 16 times to be precise.

When you're trying to build something is he really the man you want?

Bielsa is exactly the same and the only reason most know of him was due to a couple of seasons with Bilbao where they competed well in the Europa League. Again though, another manager you wouldn't want to build something on the back of.

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I actually made a prediction at the start of this season that a manager was going to come from nowhere and take an unfashionable club and possibly win the Premier against the all the odds, I was rather hoping that that would be Aston Villa and had my eyes on Garde to deliver my prediction before we sacked Sherwood, so I was delighted when we appointed him. That's one of the reasons I don't want Leicester to win the league because I'd rather we fulfill my 'prophecy' rather than them.

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11 hours ago, terrytini said:

As an aside, I'm never convinced by this.

 To me if he  - or anyone else - is really a good Manager (*) they shouldn't need their 'own players', aside from someone to be their man on the inside. Its partly this belief that results in every change of Manager needing a long process of him bedding in, then getting rid of 'not his' players, then acquiring 'his' players who in turn need to be bed in !  By which time people are fed up of things not having improved, so the Manager gets sacked, etc.

(*or maybe, more importantly, following on from one !)

E.g ;

You'll like this one TRO - Tony Barton didn't need his 'own' players !!   (Question ; Is this because (a) the guy BEFORE him was such a good Manager who had chosne well, or (b) because Barton was such a good Manager he had no trouble working with what he had, or (c), because in a way they WERE his players ?) All three ?

For me, I am getting close to thinking Garde has done enough to warrant 'a go', though I agree it is to early to decide, and way too early to be anywhere close to being sure.

And that is because he is doing it with' NOT' his players..('it' being the apparent forging of some character, desire, way of playing, certainty of style, harder to beat, and some decent football in places)

He's doing better with Sherwoods players than Sherwood did. Barton won our biggest trophy with Saunders team. Not exactly the same and not really a comparison. We have improved as a team under Garde and he is getting a harmonious dressing room with everyone fighting for each other. The fitness levels of the players now show how badly we were managed previously. Managers who have an immediate impact tend to fade just as quick as they're one tricky pony's Garde is making improvements weekly so give him a squad of players with the same ethos and then judge him fully but on current showing alone he deserves next season. 

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2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

While that's debatable, that was more than a decade ago. David O'Leary finished 4th around the same time. Football has moved on significantly from then, but I can't really say the same for Allardyce.

yeah O'Leary finished 6th with us while spending probably less on wages than Allardyce did at Bolton

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I agree with everything Grasshopper says and add that Garde had no backing from anyone.Instead of mentioning all these other names who, realistically would not have taken the job with the restrictions imposed on them lets get behind R.G. and give him 110%

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2 hours ago, Michael118 said:

I'm not an avid follower of Italian football. 

I watch a lot of premier league and other leagues occasionally.

I am very into psychology, sport psychology and spirituality.

I am sure enough in my views to share them with confidence.

Just what you need to be a Villa Manager..........

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