bickster Posted October 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: Without them where do the tourists stay? A hotel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: A hotel There isn't usually that many large scale hotels in these towns as they're basically empty for 4/5 months a year or would require demolishing the houses people are trying to protect as there's not good (sea front) locations for them. It's also not what people usually want when they go to the seaside. The largest hotel in my home town growing up (a major tourist town) has been empty and falling to bits for the last 10 years as it couldn't make enough money. In the end it was bought by developers in India and strangely suffered a devastating fire shortly afterwards. The insurance money hasn't been used to repair it several years later. Again doesn't answer the question of what else supports these towns without tourism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, chrisp65 said: The purchase of houses and flats in coastal communities for people that fancy a weekend place, a speculative purchase, a second home for the holiday season, or fancy dabbling in a bit of air b’n’b is out of control and needs punitive taxation. It’s killing communities. 100% agree. Places like Devon, Cornwall, north Nolfolk and IOW, practically every sale now is for a second home / Air BnB. Long term renters are being given notice by the Landlords as they see dabbling in Air BnB a far more profitable endeavour. Who wants £800 per month off a family when you can rent it for £100 a night or more? Punitive taxation for any new 2nd or more house purchases and retrospectively applied as well. Stamp duty for second home? 50%. Quadruple council tax. That should sort it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: There isn't usually that many large scale hotels in these towns as they're basically empty for 4/5 months a year They irony is strong in this one. These second home owners, are they putting their kids through the local school? Are they contributing to the local community cricket club? Are they turning up empty handed and buying their BBQ trays and booze in the local post office? People are homeless, other people are treating themselves to more housing than they need. That selfish attitude sucks life out of the community, takes housing stock off the market and jacks up the price of the remaining housing stock. I’ve had holidays in the UK about 18 of the last 20 years, never ever once has going to St Ives, or Abersoch, or Whitstable caused me to need a second home or rent an air b ‘n b. Not once, ever. You can holiday in the UK without depriving someone of a place to live. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: They irony is strong in this one. These second home owners, are they putting their kids through the local school? Are they contributing to the local community cricket club? Are they turning up empty handed and buying their BBQ trays and booze in the local post office? People are homeless, other people are treating themselves to more housing than they need. That selfish attitude sucks life out of the community, takes housing stock off the market and jacks up the price of the remaining housing stock. I’ve had holidays in the UK about 18 of the last 20 years, never ever once has going to St Ives, or Abersoch, or Whitstable caused me to need a second home or rent an air b ‘n b. Not once, ever. You can holiday in the UK without depriving someone of a place to live. My points are being ignored that you're trying to place restrictions on the one sector which is providing income to these areas and that punitive action has actually been mentioned. Ignoring the point that these communities are dying and doing these things will just expedite this as without tourism these towns are dead. Without tourism these towns are filled with empty houses who nobody wants to buy as there is no industry to support them living there. I've seen this in many of the towns I grew up around which used to be vibrant and are now desolate. Tourists not buying the houses doesn't solve the problem if the people who live there have no decent employment and can't afford to buy them even if they were cheap. They'll end up like the dead towns in central Devon or the ex-mining towns up North. The big employers with chances of a career are gone or going in North Devon. Fishing and agriculture aren't profitable so people are getting out of it (I know the people who run these sectors down there) , ship building is grinding to a halt as it's cheaper to buy from overseas. The only things left are tourism, social care/hospitals and property building, which aren't primary sectors as they rely on another sector to offer the jobs for the people they're supporting. They're also heavily dependent upon tourism for new homes being built and for the elderly retiring down there. There is plenty of affordable housing in places like Devon, it's just not seafront and people don't want to move to a village 10 miles away where they can afford it. Is there a problem in these towns. Yes, completely, 100%. Is placing restrictions and penalty fees on the one thing which actually brings money in to these areas the way to solve it? No, it isn't, that's ridiculous as it'll just cause more problems then there already are. But people don't want to hear this or actually offer a workable solution to the problem so I'm done talking about this. I love these areas and am very passionate about them, it's where I'm from and where I grew up, where I want to live now, but there isn't enough decent employment in them to sustain them or to give me the career I wanted so I had to leave. People can see me as a bad guy in this, that's fine, I'm just trying to be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: ou're trying to place restrictions on the one sector which is providing income to these areas They really aren't that's the whole point. They are providing income to people that don't live in the area, to supermarkets again which doesn't really go that far to the local economy. They rock up in cars full of booze, they'll mainly eat in (which is why they've gone S/C). They might spend money is restaurants a couple of nights in a week and maybe in a couple of pubs but the vast majority of the money they spend goes out of the area. Tourist money is probably a greater spend per head per day in the local economy from day trippers, they are the ones that spend every day, the weekly S/C renters spend once a week in the same shops. Tourist places existed and did very well for decades before all this Air BnB stuff ever existed. There's also no problem with having some short term rental property but that really needs to be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: My points are being ignored that you're trying to place restrictions on the one sector which is providing income to these areas and that punitive action has actually been mentioned. Ignoring the point that these communities are dying and doing these things will just expedite this as without tourism these towns are dead. Without tourism these towns are filled with empty houses who nobody wants to buy as there is no industry to support them living there. I've seen this in many of the towns I grew up around which used to be vibrant and are now desolate. Tourists not buying the houses doesn't solve the problem if the people who live there have no decent employment and can't afford to buy them even if they were cheap. They'll end up like the dead towns in central Devon or the ex-mining towns up North. The big employers with chances of a career are gone or going in North Devon. Fishing and agriculture aren't profitable so people are getting out of it (I know the people who run these sectors down there) , ship building is grinding to a halt as it's cheaper to buy from overseas. The only things left are tourism, social care/hospitals and property building, which aren't primary sectors as they rely on another sector to offer the jobs for the people they're supporting. They're also heavily dependent upon tourism for new homes being built and for the elderly retiring down there. There is plenty of affordable housing in places like Devon, it's just not seafront and people don't want to move to a village 10 miles away where they can afford it. Is there a problem in these towns. Yes, completely, 100%. Is placing restrictions and penalty fees on the one thing which actually brings money in to these areas the way to solve it? No, it isn't, that's ridiculous as it'll just cause more problems then there already are. But people don't want to hear this or actually offer a workable solution to the problem so I'm done talking about this. I love these areas and am very passionate about them, it's where I'm from and where I grew up, where I want to live now, but there isn't enough decent employment in them to sustain them or to give me the career I wanted so I had to leave. People can see me as a bad guy in this, that's fine, I'm just trying to be realistic. Your points aren’t being ignored. You are making two separate things in to a single point to justify an action. I look forward to the good people of Devon finding out there is plenty of affordable housing, they’re just looking in the wrong places. We clearly just have very different views on community and whether there is a housing crisis, and sometimes it’s ok to have different opinions on stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2021 Living by the sea is nice, and therefore not suitable for poor people. What is it you woke namby-pamby's don't understand about this? Yours sincerely, The Conservative Party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 7, 2021 As I said, I'm done on this topic as I'm finding some responses to be very condescending and I think it's pointless to continue as that's not what I come to this forum for. I'm not trying to justify 2nd home ownership, I don't need to as I don't have a 2nd home. Nobody in my immediate family does. The only people in my wider family who do are the ones who actually live in North Devon and have profited from the tourist industry. Whilst there is a lot more I could say on this subject I think there's other topics on here we're my time would be better spent. This discussion is off topic as it's not Tory related (and in case anyone is wondering I don't vote Tory and can't stand BoJo) so I'm not going to continue the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I’m not bothered how much someone wants to spend on a car, or how many yachts they have or how much art you’ve bought. Fill yer boots. Healthcare, Education, Shelter, there needs to be a decent minimum for all, before some are allowed more than an equal share. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Xela said: Punitive taxation for any new 2nd or more house purchases and retrospectively applied as well. Stamp duty for second home? 50%. Quadruple council tax. That should sort it. Depending on what you mean by this, it's a very dangerous road to go down. Agreed with heavily ramping up stamp duty. Council tax is a tricky one. In theory it sounds good, but don't almost all landlords just pass that on to tenants? I think the goal needs to be stopping them buying the property in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Living by the sea is nice, and therefore not suitable for poor people. What is it you woke namby-pamby's don't understand about this? Yours sincerely, The Conservative Party You can have a 3 bedroom house by the sea in Fleetwood for about £75k Edited October 7, 2021 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Depending on what you mean by this, it's a very dangerous road to go down. Agreed with heavily ramping up stamp duty. Council tax is a tricky one. In theory it sounds good, but don't almost all landlords just pass that on to tenants? I think the goal needs to be stopping them buying the property in the first place. I'll be honest, my manifesto is still in the draft stage Re: the council tax, I was more on about second home owners or holiday lets as opposed to genuine long term rental stock, which is still needed,. Holiday lets are needed for tourist areas but it needs a lot more regulation and limiting/controlling. In terms of retrospective stamp duty, this could be avoided if the second home was sold in a reasonable time-scale (say 2 years). If not, they they would need to pay it. Making it up on the spot, just like Boris! The bottom line though, is that no-one needs a second home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Genie said: You can have a 3 bedroom house by the sea in Fleetwood for about £75k Proof if proof were needed of the damage done to house prices in other parts of the country. There’s no reason there shouldn’t be decent safe warm dry accommodation for under £100k in every town up and down the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Interesting, I lean towards the reverse. I have less of a problem with people who buy a second home because they actually want to use it than I do do with landlords buying up as much cheap property as they can, making their tenants pay the mortgage. I'd still tax the former much more than we currently do, but I want landlords to be put out of business, bunch of **** parasites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 26 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Agreed with heavily ramping up stamp duty. Council tax is a tricky one. In theory it sounds good, but don't almost all landlords just pass that on to tenants? On a normal shorthold tenancy agreement, yes. For the holiday rental - Air B n' B model being discussed, no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Interesting, I lean towards the reverse. I have less of a problem with people who buy a second home because they actually want to use it than I do do with landlords buying up as much cheap property as they can, making their tenants pay the mortgage. I'd still tax the former much more than we currently do, but I want landlords to be put out of business, bunch of **** parasites. I think the common agreement is that there needs to be far more control and regulation on the whole sector. Its a free-for-all at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, Genie said: You can have a 3 bedroom house by the sea in Fleetwood for about £75k Have you ever been to Fleetwood? To get out of the place, you can't avoid Blackpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Have you ever been to Fleetwood? Is that one of those 'gravy on fish' areas we have nightmares about? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: Have you ever been to Fleetwood? To get out of the place, you can't avoid Blackpool Yeah, it’s not a nice place to live. Just an option if you want to be by the sea, but don’t care about your personal safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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