OutByEaster? Posted January 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 His Mail on Sunday column today is full of support for Boris in working at getting schools open and he's really waving the flag for the great British spirit of the vaccine roll out - people are naturally going to going to associate that celebratory tone with this government. When you use the Tories favourite method of communication to outline your agreement and support with a Tory policy and you throw in a congratulatory tone for the government and Prime minister in the things they're doing now, then I think it's fair to say you're not doing enough to show that you're right and the Tory party are wrong. That column today is much more supportive of Boris than Gove or Hunt would be - that alone to me says his approach is not just wrong, but appallingly off course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, blandy said: But first I guess they need to have their conference or whatever to agree some policies that they can all get behind. It's all a bit in limbo right now. Absolutely, it's a pity though where we're reaching a point where he might need a good set of policies that his party can get behind in order to save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 31, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 38 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: we're reaching a point where he might need a good set of policies that his party can get behind in order to save him. Do you think so? I don’t see it remotely like that, tbh. He’s in less peril than Bunter, I’d say. I can’t see them changing leader after less than a year, that would be lunacy, and he’s personally rated quite highly in polls by the public. Even labour is a way ahead of where it sat when he took over. 4 years to a GE, changing in the short term based on polls during a pandemic would be...odd, surely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, blandy said: Do you think so? I don’t see it remotely like that, tbh. He’s in less peril than Bunter, I’d say. I can’t see them changing leader after less than a year, that would be lunacy, and he’s personally rated quite highly in polls by the public. Even labour is a way ahead of where it sat when he took over. 4 years to a GE, changing in the short term based on polls during a pandemic would be...odd, surely? The Spectator podcast from yesterday is quite a good listen on this subject. The gist, which I think is pretty sound - the leader of the opposition has two jobs. (1) Look like a plausible replacement for the Prime Minister (which, given his individual public approval numbers as LOTO are better than Cameron ever got and are second only to Blair in the last four decades) he's succeeding at that. (2) Provide scrutiny and opposition to the Government of the day. And given this Government is the worst in living memory and he's still barely laying a finger on them, he is clearly failing at that. And four years away from an election, (2) is clearly more of an important job at the moment than (1) Edited January 31, 2021 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: The problem is that Starmer seems to go out of his way to make it appear that the opposite is true. I also have no horse in the race, and I hate the Tories, but I worry about Starmer, he's the best hope of a viable alternative and at the moment he's failing on both viable and alternative. 2 or 3 weeks ago (long time in politics) Starmer was leading this government by the nose. He'd say we need to do something, they'd instinctively say no and u-turn and do it 2 days later I've not kept up with what he's been saying since the New Year but before Xmas that was most definitely true What has happened since.... The Vaccine rollout going into top gear, by all accounts this is going well. What is Starmer supposed to say about that? It's not his fault the Government have actually managed to do something right. The Vaccine brief "phoney War" with the EU, what uis he supposed to say in criticism of that? The EU are right even though they aren't? There's not really a major topic that he can criticise the Govt for right now. Sure there's all the other stuff like Brexit and all that but the Pandemic / Vaccinations are THE big headline grabber atm and he can't really be criticising something that is going beyond expectations and actually meeting the targets set The Tories are exactly what we know they are but they are having a good few weeks, that won't last but I really don't think its a good look to be criticising something that is going well and anything else he criticises it going to get overwhelmingly lost 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 There’s no rush. He’s got another 3 or 4 years before people have to realise he’s supposed to be the opposition. Anyway, something bigger than Brexit and Pandemic and Economic Crash will probably come along. Then I don’t doubt we’ll really see him kick in to gear. Unless, of course, for some reason he doesn’t get a better opportunity. Or the next election comes slightly earlier than planned. But that never happens, does it? Oh, just the twice since the fixed term parliament act of 2011. There’s no rush. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: IF they continue to seemingly do well with the vaccination programme I can see a large number of people considering the government to be a roaring success, post WWII style. I know what you mean, but political success for the incumbent government is exactly what *didn't* happen in the aftermath of World War 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Oh great 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: IF they continue to seemingly do well with the vaccination programme I can see a large number of people considering the government to be a roaring success, post WWII style. Plus there will be an economic boom post lockdown as everyone go outs for meals, go to bars/pubs/clubs and book holidays etc That will help the Tories as well. It'll give the impression of 'good times' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I know what you mean, but political success for the incumbent government is exactly what *didn't* happen in the aftermath of World War 2. There was no incumbent government at the end of WW2. We had a govt of National Unity Just for pedantry's sake more than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: There was no incumbent government at the end of WW2. We had a govt of National Unity Just for pedantry's sake more than anything If we're being really pedantic, that isn't actually fully correct either: 'On 23 May, Labour left the coalition to begin their general election campaign. Churchill resigned as prime minister but the King asked him to form a new government, known as the Churchill caretaker ministry, until the election was held in July. Churchill agreed and his new ministry, essentially a Conservative one, held office for the next two months until it was replaced by Attlee's Labour government after their election victory.' from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_war_ministry#23_May_1945_–_End_of_the_ministry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Xela said: Plus there will be an economic boom post lockdown as everyone go outs for meals, go to bars/pubs/clubs and book holidays etc That will help the Tories as well. It'll give the impression of 'good times' I assumed he was joking. Given the electoral rout Churchill was handed in 1945. Edit - as HV has already pointed out. Edited January 31, 2021 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Xela said: Plus there will be an economic boom post lockdown as everyone go outs for meals, go to bars/pubs/clubs and book holidays etc That will help the Tories as well. It'll give the impression of 'good times' The next election is due in 2024. Even if it is another year before we are back to something like normality, and then get 6-8 months of boom, that will be long forgotten come 2024. I think the Tories will try to take advantage of any feel good factor though and call an early election to coincide with the middle of that boom. Win that and they then have 5 years to inflict a whole heap of pain on the masses and give those already with the least another good kicking whilst decimating public services and workers rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The situation at Napier and Penally barracks: Asylum seekers tell of dire conditions at Kent barracks after fire 'Asylum seekers at a former army barracks have said they have been left without electricity, heating and drinking water since a fire broke out on Friday, while volunteers say they have been blocked from providing donations. The fire started in one of the blocks at the Napier barracks site near Folkestone in Kent on Friday afternoon, prompting panic among the hundreds of asylum seekers housed inside. Fourteen men have been arrested in connection with the fire, which Kent police say they believe was started deliberately. One of the men has been charged with assault. Since Friday, heating and electricity in all but one of the blocks has been off, according to multiple asylum seekers and volunteers who contacted the Guardian, leaving the men, many of whom have Covid-19, in freezing conditions. Drinking water supplies had not been replenished, forcing the men to drink non-potable water from the bathroom block taps, they said. [...] One asylum seeker at Napier barracks told the Guardian: “Since a few distressed people lost control and made a wrong choice to set one block on fire, there has been no electricity, hot water or drinkable water. It’s extremely dark and cold at nights. People can’t take a shower and we have to drink water from the toilet tap. The staff have gone except security guards and police. “We don’t know what all of us have done that we’re being punished like this. There are sick people here and they also have to sleep in darkness with no heating. Why should the actions of a few affect all of us?” The Red Cross, the largest independent provider of support to people seeking asylum and refugees in the UK, interviewed 101 asylum seekers held at Penally barracks in Wales for a report into conditions and makes 22 recommendations for change. The confidential report, intended to advise the government, states that barracks accommodation can never be an appropriate form of housing for people claiming asylum, because “the majority of people seeking asylum have lived in adverse and insecure conditions, often for prolonged periods. Many people have been held against their will in prisons and other military buildings. Many have experienced abuse, violence and/or torture on these sites.” The report identifies many specific concerns about life for asylum seekers in the barracks including one person making 11 requests for medical assistance before some was given and another waiting in pain for 20 days before being seen by a doctor. Almost half – 44% – said they felt unsafe at the barracks, while some received death threats and were racially and verbally abused by rightwing protestors. The report finds that some of food was served raw leading to food poisoning.' more at link: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/31/asylum-seekers-dire-conditions-kent-napier-barracks-fire?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Incidentally, this is the line the government are using to defend parking asylum seekers in these conditions: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: His Mail on Sunday column today is full of support for Boris in working at getting schools open and he's really waving the flag for the great British spirit of the vaccine roll out - people are naturally going to going to associate that celebratory tone with this government. When you use the Tories favourite method of communication to outline your agreement and support with a Tory policy and you throw in a congratulatory tone for the government and Prime minister in the things they're doing now, then I think it's fair to say you're not doing enough to show that you're right and the Tory party are wrong. That column today is much more supportive of Boris than Gove or Hunt would be - that alone to me says his approach is not just wrong, but appallingly off course. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. He's got to win the trust of the shouldn't-be Tory crowd and then go about decimating the government. Politics as it stands now is too tribal and just being a flat-out opposition will be dismissed. As much as a I want to see him get stuck into the Tories as if he were posting in Off Topic, I think he's got to play the long game if he's going to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2021 16 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: His Mail on Sunday column today is full of support for Boris in working at getting schools open Just noticed this bit. The Mail, you say. Read by people who vote Tory and who are told that Labour are communist insurgents. So maybe trying to counter that, to look responsible is smart. I dunno? Long game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2021 Maybe and there are certainly lots of Tory voters fed up with Boris; he's too loud, too brash, too irresponsible, not their sort of man. Starmer would fit in much better at the golf club I'm sure and I think he can win some of those voters over, possibly in decent amounts - or at least persuade them to abstain in good numbers - that seems to be the plan. The problem is that while he's persuading the country that he could be a good Tory, he's losing a lot of Labour voters who keep hearing him quack and are wondering if he's a duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: The old left and right is the past, power is in the middle. Blair knew it, Cameron knew it even Boris seemed to know it. Given that current Tory policy appears to be cribbing from old National Front leaflets, I'm not sure that last one is quite right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2021 SOme posts moved to the chairman mao resembling LP thread, if you wonder where they've gone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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