peterms Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 This is interesting. While the pension fund was underprovided and sub-contractors waiting ages for payments, the directors took steps to try to protect their bonuses from being clawed back in the event of company failure. Quote Troubled engineer Carillion introduced tougher rules that protect bonuses paid to bosses – just months before it was embroiled in an accounting crisis that wiped £600million off its shares. The firm changed the wording of its pay policy to make it harder for investors to claw back bonuses paid to executives in the event it ran into financial difficulty. In recent days Carillion has been under pressure from investors to recoup some of the millions of pounds in bonuses paid to former chief executive Richard Howson and ex-finance chief Richard Adam when they were in charge. A probe by the Mail has found that previously bosses could have been forced to hand back their annual bonus and share awards in ‘circumstances of corporate failure’. But in the group’s 2016 annual report this wording was tightened. It says deferred bonuses may be reduced in circumstances of corporate failure but goes on to say the so-called ‘malus’ and ‘clawback’ provisions can be applied in two circumstances: if results have been misstated or the participant is guilty of gross misconduct. Essentially, this means that executives would have to be guilty of fraudulent behaviour rather than just the more general failure of the firm. Carillion – which builds and maintains schools, hospitals, barracks, roads and railways – has seen more than 70 per cent wiped off its value since July 10 when it suddenly announced an £845million write-down and suspended dividends. Carillion wrote down £375million mostly on three troubled public-private finance partnerships in the UK, and £470million on overseas contracts. Bosses suspended dividends to save £80million for the year and said all options were under consideration as part of a review of the business. Analysts also warned on the firm’s ballooning £800million pension deficit and debt of £1.4billion. The changes to clawback rules, if interpreted as being a higher bar, could save bosses millions. Howson, 49, stepped down from his role as chief executive on the day of the disastrous trading update. He had been in the post since 2009. He is still with the company as chief operating officer but is due to leave next year. He has made £1.9million in cash and share bonuses during his tenure, only not getting an award in 2012, according to Mail calculations. Last year he pocketed a £245,000 bonus in cash and shares as well as a £346,000 long-term incentive award. Adam, 59, has had up to £2.6million in extra cash and shares since starting in 2006, according to Mail calculations. Last year he was handed a bonus of £140,000 and long-term incentive awards worth £278,000. After leaving Carillion in December 2016, he faced a revolt from shareholders at First Group when he joined the transport company’s board. More than a fifth opposed his appointment. Carillion is still one of the most shorted stocks on the market, suggesting investors are expecting worse to come. But shares closed up 3.7 per cent yesterday, or 1.6p, at 44.76p. The company declined to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, peterms said: Chris "Failing" Grayling thought it would be a good idea to give them more work. On the face of it, a remarkably incompetent decision by Failing, which should merit close examination once the dust has settled. Doing a wonderful job of alienating Tory voters in the South East. It's been hilarious watching the various anti Southern groups on social media. Throughout the strikes the Tory bellends were blaming the unions for the problems. Since agreement was reached and the cessation of industrial action, the service has got worse. I was on time for work just one day last week. Today, late again. Good job my employers are understanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Covering up the problems. Quote Fears for embattled Carillion as finance boss who unearthed £845m black hole is axed The finance director who helped unearth major problems at embattled Carillion is leaving after less than one year in the job. Zafar Khan will be replaced by internal candidate Emma Mercer as part of a major management shake-up that has raised questions about the engineer’s stability as it battles for survival... From Sept 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 It's all relative of course, but those look fairly small bonuses compared to a lot of companies that size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Quote ˈbəʊnəs/ noun a sum of money added to a person's wages as a reward for good performance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2018 43 minutes ago, Risso said: It's all relative of course, but those look fairly small bonuses compared to a lot of companies that size. Always make sure you get your bonus secured before you pay your sub contractors. We do seriously need some of these people, running some of these company based scams, to start going to prison. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Always make sure you get your bonus secured before you pay your sub contractors. We do seriously need some of these people, running some of these company based scams, to start going to prison. Most companies I've ever come across pay their staff before they pay their suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, Risso said: Most companies I've ever come across pay their staff before they pay their suppliers. bonuses they've paid bonuses, the bosses have tried to ring fence their bonuses before they went bubble, whilst hanging their subbies out to dry don't be the wrong side of yet another moral argument 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: bonuses they've paid bonuses, the bosses have tried to ring fence their bonuses before they went bubble, whilst hanging their subbies out to dry don't be the wrong side of yet another moral argument I'll be on whatever side of whatever argument I like thanks, how about engaging your brain and actually thinking about things for a change instead of just mindlessly regurgitating what you read in The Independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 We both know I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: We both know I'm right. What stunning argument will you unleash next in your attempt to win the internet, "my dad's bigger than yours"? If you think you're right that bosses should go to prison for paying themselves, then there won't be many people wanting to run big companies any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Risso said: What stunning argument will you unleash next in your attempt to win the internet, "my dad's bigger than yours"? If you think you're right that bosses should go to prison for paying themselves, then there won't be many people wanting to run big companies any more. Philip Green couldn’t agree more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted January 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Risso said: If you think you're right that bosses should go to prison for paying themselves, then there won't be many people wanting to run big companies any more. Their basic salaries appear to have been considerably north of half a million per year. I reckon I could find a couple of thousand applicants without leaving my postcode. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted January 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Risso said: how about engaging your brain and actually thinking about things for a change instead of just mindlessly regurgitating what you read in ..... ....The Times ....The Sun ....The Mail ....The Institute of Directors website .....City AM website .....Buzzfeed ....The Telegraph ....This is Money financial website .....Construction News website This is not a list of knee jerk comfy leftie newspapers. This is a list of the media reporting on Carillion bosses and their bonus scam, some of them since last September. An attempt to change the rules of the company, to get bosses their £1,500,000 of salary and 'bonus' trousered before the collapse. Disgusting. Anyway, I'm out for the day now, meetings picking up the pieces in our little section of the construction industry. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Broken and discarded moral compasses litter the approach to the trough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 16, 2018 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Risso said: What stunning argument will you unleash next in your attempt to win the internet, "my dad's bigger than yours"?.... Are you recommending your own style of debate? 8 hours ago, Risso said: , how about engaging your brain and actually thinking about things for a change instead of just mindlessly regurgitating what you read... Because if you are, then the old “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones...” saying might be pertinent. theres a long and illustrious history of business owners and directors plundering assets one way or another, while their legal duty has been to do the exact opposite. It would do a great deal of good if those types were to be more strongly discouraged and punished than they have tended to be. Whether it’s pension fund plundering, like Maxwell, Phoenix (Rover), or scandals like C&A, the courier who went bust, RBS or Carillion we might see the odd ill deserved knighthood revoked, but that’s about the extent of the punishment, at best. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Looks like the auditors will have many questions to answer. Firm with hardly any assets, valuing goodwill as - what was it - about a third of its value, while stiffing contractors with late payments, underpaying into the pensions fund, winning contracts on margins it evidently couldn't deliver, short on cash. While it was issuing profits warnings, while its bankers were increasingly concerned, while hedge funds were betting against it for the last four years, the auditors were saying - what? Perhaps there should be an investigation into the auditors as well. We could get another firm to do it. Someone like Arthur Andersen...oh, wait... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Risso said: Most companies I've ever come across pay their staff before they pay their suppliers. Bonuses =/= pay 9 hours ago, Risso said: I'll be on whatever side of whatever argument I like thanks, how about engaging your brain and actually thinking about things for a change instead of just mindlessly regurgitating what you read in The Independent? Pathetic, then the nerve to criticise Chris' line of debate. 8 hours ago, Risso said: If you think you're right that bosses should go to prison for paying themselves Literally nobody said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Risso said: What stunning argument will you unleash next in your attempt to win the internet, "my dad's bigger than yours"? If you think you're right that bosses should go to prison for paying themselves, then there won't be many people wanting to run big companies any more. Your opinion is exactly the problem. Entitlement. You’ve failed a few times i’m a row to understand the difference between a salary and a bonus. They were paid their salary to show up and make decisions, they’re not also entitled to a bonus for running the company into insolvency. Well, insolvency if it wasn’t ‘too big to fail’. Whats even worse is that a lot of this money comes from government contracts and in turn the publics tax money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 16, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2018 There isn't a defensible position for Carillion bosses to have not only been paid their bonuses but, in the light of a growing crisis, changing the rules to make sure said bonuses are bulletproof. I'm not against people in high positions earning whatever money their company agrees they can have, but I'd strongly argue there should be a morality to that. Everyone and his dog who was minded to Google Carillion in the past year would have found articles telling you the company was not in a good way. Those at the top would have been all too aware of that. Yet they get rewarded for it. And their actions with the company, that they were rewarded for, will inevitably knacker a bunch of smaller businesses who simply had the temerity to work with the second biggest construction contractor in the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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