terrytini Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 But they just thought it was full time when it was a free kick - they were dumb yeah but I can see why they went on early. Besides which, I thought the stewards handled it just fine. Any attempt to properly force fans back could have actually resulted in things kicking off. What else could they have done? That's still their fault though. There was still a minute or something left of added time when they ran on (IIRC). You are supporting their logic, and haven addressed any of the points I've raised. Law/ rule enforcement isn't, and never has been, about saying there is a rule that says x which has been transgressed therefore action 'y' must follow. I repeat, it does not directly punish the transgressors, it does punish the innocent, it won't deter, it is an arbitrary figure, and it is a nonsense. I have no problem agreeing that fans shouldn't go on the pitch. I think it is moronic for an adult to do,personally, but then I think lots of things are. This is a farce. Your points centre around the idea that the club hosting a sporting event has no responsibility for the actions of the fans it allows through the turnstiles. Now I'd argue they do, you digress. Regardless that is the principle applied by the footballing authorities and as such we have been fairly punished. My original post was more in response to the suggestion that we are being harshly targeted by the FA. I'm not suggesting a club has no responsibility for its fans, although you are correct that I consider the way this responsibility is viewed is open to criticism generally, and certainly in this case. A club should do all that is reasonable. But none of that alters what I've said about the totally arbitrary nature of this, in terms of how the amount is arrived at, how much would or would not be an appropriate amount, how many fans doing what exactly justifies what, how it unfairly gets those who did nothing wrong to bear a cost, how it doesn't deter, is indiscriminate, and all the other stuff I said I can't be bothered to say again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adw95 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'm not suggesting a club has no responsibility for its fans, although you are correct that I consider the way this responsibility is viewed is open to criticism generally, and certainly in this case. A club should do all that is reasonable. But none of that alters what I've said about the totally arbitrary nature of this, in terms of how the amount is arrived at, how much would or would not be an appropriate amount, how many fans doing what exactly justifies what, how it unfairly gets those who did nothing wrong to bear a cost, how it doesn't deter, is indiscriminate, and all the other stuff I said I can't be bothered to say again ! Who is this referring to? The club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 But they just thought it was full time when it was a free kick - they were dumb yeah but I can see why they went on early. Besides which, I thought the stewards handled it just fine. Any attempt to properly force fans back could have actually resulted in things kicking off. What else could they have done? That's still their fault though. There was still a minute or something left of added time when they ran on (IIRC). You are supporting their logic, and haven addressed any of the points I've raised. Law/ rule enforcement isn't, and never has been, about saying there is a rule that says x which has been transgressed therefore action 'y' must follow. I repeat, it does not directly punish the transgressors, it does punish the innocent, it won't deter, it is an arbitrary figure, and it is a nonsense. I have no problem agreeing that fans shouldn't go on the pitch. I think it is moronic for an adult to do,personally, but then I think lots of things are. This is a farce. Your points centre around the idea that the club hosting a sporting event has no responsibility for the actions of the fans it allows through the turnstiles. Now I'd argue they do, you digress. Regardless that is the principle applied by the footballing authorities and as such we have been fairly punished. My original post was more in response to the suggestion that we are being harshly targeted by the FA. And as I asked earlier, by what yardstick have you decided it is ' fair' ? Would 400 have been fair ? 150 ? A million ? Should it have been less if a hundred less went on ? More if more did ? Does how long they were on or how quickly they got off count ? I just can't see how you have decided it is 'fair'. Unless you mean it corresponds to an amount you had previously thought it would be ? Which is by no means the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) I just mean the justification of the fine itself. As to the figure in question, I'd have to know what the general amount issued in these situations is. Although £200k is chump change for a Premier League club. Edited May 14, 2015 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I just mean the justification of the fine itself. As to the figure in question, I'd have to know what the general amount issued in these situations is. Although £200k is chump change for a Premier League club. Which is where we came in. It may be loose change to ' the club' but the clubs money comes from us. Therefore another way of looking at it is all the money I, and every other vt' er has ever spent on villa, just goes towards paying some of this. I don't want what I've spent to go on an arbitrary, indiscriminate, pointless, fine. If others are OK with it good luck to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think it's fine considering what happened before the final whistle, which is what they are (rightly) concerned about. Moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think it's very steep! The BBC caused the perfect storm by having a late kick-off with two local rivals. I've never seen so many drunk people in a football ground before (in recent times anyway). In reality though it's relative peanuts we'd have probably got three times that amount in TV money for the match and our fans helped us to victory so all in all it was worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted May 14, 2015 Administrator Share Posted May 14, 2015 I can't believe no-one's asked the obvious question. Does this count towards FFP? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Worth every penny. Considering I don't have to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Fans entering the field of play whilst the game is still being played will undoubtedly end in a fine. The fact that is was live on TV could have possibly influenced the size of the fine, I don't know? £200k is not a lot. Villa will have taken around £1million or this game. Cant see what all the fuss is about myself-We knew this was coming 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Despite the size of the fine....it's so unnecessary. I think inebriation is the most significant factor in all this and let's just hope thats the last of it....but somehow I have my doubts. The most worrying aspect is that stone cold sober the next morning, some didn't see what was wrong.....well now they know ,200 grands worth of wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Must have got ready for a bit of next years tv money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2015 We need to grow a pair and challenge the fa to show why, as a first offence, the fines so high. Notice the warning about future conduct, I think if it happens again we would be thrown out the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Can't help but wonder how much the fine has been inflated due to Pearce's and Lawrenson's misguided moral outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I get why there's a fine here - fans aren't supposed to go on the pitch but it's sometimes tolerated if it's after the whistle. Our fans went on before, thus it's worse. The part that raised my eyebrows was the $200K number. Really? Exactly $200K? If you took your car in to a garage and the mechanic had a quick look and said "it'll cost you exactly a grand", you probably wonder how he got to that number. You'd hope there would be some kind of basic equation for figuring out fines. Maybe even a spreadsheet. This feels more like they blindfolded an (admittedly talented) monkey and got him to throw a dart at a board and multiplied it by 10,000. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Inconsistent nonsense. We're being made an example of, and it's unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 £200k?! Are they taking the piss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benireduk Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Way OTT for me. I get that we shouldn't have ran on before the final whistle, but it's not like we caused the game to be postponed like Blackpool v Huddersfield. What's the punishment for that incident going to be?!?! £500k?? £1m?? We were overcome with joy at getting to Wembley in a competition ran by the very organisation fining us. Nobody was injured as far as I'm aware. Probably the closest anyone came to being injured was when Morrison tripped one of our fans up when he was trudging off the pitch. Don't get me started on the Olbiyun seemingly getting away with throwing seats on fans........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well bless them.....Just pay their silly little fine and let them all carry on covering each others arses after they totally overeacted in a situation largely of their own doing whilst choosing to ignore the only really dangerous part of the whole thing which was the Baggies hooligans throwing seats and vandalising VP in the process. Just about sums them up really! Maybe we should all wear seatbelts and take a vow of silence on entering the stadium?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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