The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[snowychap]

Blimey, they've let Degsy back in.

[tonyh29]

15 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

So 30 hours a week free childcare. Given how bloody expensive it is, I think that's a cracking policy

it's already a government policy isn't it ?

[bickster]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

Blimey, they've let Degsy back in.

Never really in doubt was it, when the Party's General Secretary is ex-Militant herself

[lapal_fan]

I was walking through Halesowen today to get my lad some new library books for his bedtime stories and I thought "a bit busy here today, nice to see it so bustling for a change".  Then as I walk down the high street I hear muffled speakers getting louder.. lots of people...  hang on... 

It's only Jeremy Corbyn giving a speech

 

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

I was walking through Halesowen today to get my lad some new library books for his bedtime stories and I thought "a bit busy here today, nice to see it so bustling for a change".  Then as I walk down the high street I hear muffled speakers getting louder.. lots of people...  hang on... 

It's only Jeremy Corbyn giving a speech

 

Halesowen is one of Labour's top target seats, so it probably won't be the last time over the next few years. 

[magnkarl]

On 27/09/2018 at 20:19, PompeyVillan said:

So 30 hours a week free childcare. Given how bloody expensive it is, I think that's a cracking policy. It will enable parents to take less time off work, unburdened grandparents and give opportunities to people who are put off having children because of the cost. 

This is one of the sorts of things that make our society feel more fair. There are some insanely wealthy corporations and individuals in this country, asking them to pay a bit more and still prosper in order to make life a little bit better for everyone seems absolutely fair to me. 

Again, with Labour's view on Brexit there won't be any "insanely wealthy corporations" (Labour's top scapegoat when it comes to money issues) left in our country. It's stupid to let our country go down the toilet and then try to get money from an already struggling post-Brexit business sector. 

30 hours free childcare a week works well in well oiled countries where the two main parties aren't slowly killing their economy. The money has to come from somewhere or else it's just another empty promise from Labour like the tuition fee saga.

[chrisp65]

Just now, magnkarl said:

Again, with Labour's view on Brexit there won't be any "insanely wealthy corporations" (Labour's top scapegoat when it comes to money issues) left in our country. It's stupid to let our country go down the toilet and then try to get money from an already struggling post-Brexit business sector. 

30 hours free childcare a week works well in well oiled countries where the two main parties aren't slowly killing their economy. The money has to come from somewhere or else it's just another empty promise from Labour like the tuition fee saga.

I don't think additional child care is going to be the tipping point that puts us down the toilet.

I think that's already been covered by nasty idiot tory MP's and their gammon faced thick cult supporters.

[PompeyVillan]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Again, with Labour's view on Brexit there won't be any "insanely wealthy corporations" (Labour's top scapegoat when it comes to money issues) left in our country. It's stupid to let our country go down the toilet and then try to get money from an already struggling post-Brexit business sector. 

30 hours free childcare a week works well in well oiled countries where the two main parties aren't slowly killing their economy. The money has to come from somewhere or else it's just another empty promise from Labour like the tuition fee saga.

I sympathise with your point, but unless Brexit really is the nuclear apocalypse politics and policy won't end overnight. There will still be enough money in the country to provide fair support to those that need it and to improve the quality of life for as many people as possible. 

[chrisp65]

I'd give people a little extra childcare so they can go to WORK, rather than spend £120 MILLION on some **** Festival of Brexit.

I'd also prefer to give 10% of water companies and train companies to the workforce, rather than the Japanese, Malaysians, Canadians, France, Germany, Italy, The Netherlands etc. But that's just the crazy radical in me.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Again, with Labour's view on Brexit there won't be any "insanely wealthy corporations" (Labour's top scapegoat when it comes to money issues) left in our country. It's stupid to let our country go down the toilet and then try to get money from an already struggling post-Brexit business sector. 

30 hours free childcare a week works well in well oiled countries where the two main parties aren't slowly killing their economy. The money has to come from somewhere or else it's just another empty promise from Labour like the tuition fee saga.

This is exactly the same 'the nation's budget is like a household budget' stuff that the Cameroons used to come up with. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. 

Speaking of which, it's now four years since all the talk from the press at the Labour Party conference was how outrageous it was that Miliband 'forgot to talk about the deficit'. Our watchdog media sure have done a good job of keep pressing that storyline, eh. 

[tonyh29]

13 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I'd give people a little extra childcare so they can go to WORK, rather than spend £120 MILLION on some **** Festival of Brexit.

I'd also prefer to give 10% of water companies and train companies to the workforce, rather than the Japanese, Malaysians, Canadians, France, Germany, Italy, The Netherlands etc. But that's just the crazy radical in me.

So what your saying is you'd like to take back control  

I also quite like the notion that this extra childcare money is going to get everyone back to work ..if VT has taught me anything it's that British people are lazy work-shy  and don't work as hard as Poles , Romanians etc  ... presumably in our socialist Utopia we'll be giving extra childcare to families so they can buy more cigarettes and alcohol whilst immigrants do all the work for them  .. on the plus side at least the government would be getting the money back through the excessive duty on these items

 

[tonyh29]

12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is exactly the same 'the nation's budget is like a household budget' stuff that the Cameroons used to come up with. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. 

I'm not sure how the budget of a small African nation is really that relevant 

 

[chrisp65]

57 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

So what your saying is you'd like to take back control  

I also quite like the notion that this extra childcare money is going to get everyone back to work ..if VT has taught me anything it's that British people are lazy work-shy  and don't work as hard as Poles , Romanians etc  ... presumably in our socialist Utopia we'll be giving extra childcare to families so they can buy more cigarettes and alcohol whilst immigrants do all the work for them  .. on the plus side at least the government would be getting the money back through the excessive duty on these items

 

Yes, I'd like to take back control. But in a workers' co-operative common treasury sort of way. Rather than in a hand it all over to Rees Mogg and his overseas financial portfolio backers and hope they're all thoroughly decent chaps sort of way.

For clarity, I'm not saying we all have to wear Mao shirts and all earn £2,000 for working in the Spar or being a brain surgeon. You've gotta incentivise people with income differential. Just maybe not to the point where some earn literally millions a year whilst others need state childcare so they can go out working three jobs to pay the rent on a bedsit.

 

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

I'm not sure how the budget of a small African nation is really that relevant 

 

Someone should've told Treeza May that before she went off on her African Lap Dancing Adventure.

[peterms]

21 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is exactly the same 'the nation's budget is like a household budget' stuff that the Cameroons used to come up with. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. 

Speaking of which, it's now four years since all the talk from the press at the Labour Party conference was how outrageous it was that Miliband 'forgot to talk about the deficit'. Our watchdog media sure have done a good job of keep pressing that storyline, eh. 

Yes.  A lot of people seem to think that before we can afford things like health, education and so on, we have to gather up notes and coins, or the electronic equivalent, from people and companies, but that no such constraint exists when we want to do something like renew Trident, or bomb some more people to death.

If we wish to provide more childcare, the constraint is suitable and available workers and premises, not "there's no money".

It's interesting that in both the US and here, the scare stories about "the deficit" have faded into the background when the right wing want to spend, just enough mention to maks it credible to renew them at a time of the media's choosing, but not the hysteria that acts as a brake on spending thet we see whenever an alternative set of policies emerge.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

Yes.  A lot of people seem to think that before we can afford things like health, education and so on, we have to gather up notes and coins, or the electronic equivalent, from people and companies, but that no such constraint exists when we want to do something like renew Trident, or bomb some more people to death.

If we wish to provide more childcare, the constraint is suitable and available workers and premises, not "there's no money".

It's interesting that in both the US and here, the scare stories about "the deficit" have faded into the background when the right wing want to spend, just enough mention to maks it credible to renew them at a time of the media's choosing, but not the hysteria that acts as a brake on spending thet we see whenever an alternative set of policies emerge.

. . . and of course an exactly parallel situation can be found in America, where guys who grew apoplectic with rage nearly a decade ago at the prospect of mortgage relief for underwater home owners, or food stamps for undernourished kids, or health care for basically anybody, have suddenly found it within their hearts to vote for a budget-busting $717 billion defence bill, and a round of tax cuts for rich people. 

[peterms]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

. . . and of course an exactly parallel situation can be found in America, where guys who grew apoplectic with rage nearly a decade ago at the prospect of mortgage relief for underwater home owners, or food stamps for undernourished kids, or health care for basically anybody, have suddenly found it within their hearts to vote for a budget-busting $717 billion defence bill, and a round of tax cuts for rich people. 

It's quite astonishing, and very scary, that a bunch of evil zealots can convince so many people that they should strive to be self-sufficient,  when the entire history of the human race, and the entire US economy, tells a very different story.

Respect to the ones who go off into deepest Idaho with bottled water and snares and try to live the dream and die quietly, but I'm worried about the ones who hang around kids and impressionable adults.

[colhint]

But doesn't the EU rules state that a country's deficit must not exceed 3% of gdp and debt 60% of gdp. So how do we get the money to spend. 

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, peterms said:

Respect to the ones who go off into deepest Idaho with bottled water and snares and try to live the dream and die quietly, but I'm worried about the ones who hang around kids and impressionable adults.

Yes, the Ron Swanson types - bitch about government endlessly, but cash the cheques religiously. 

[magnkarl]

The issue here isn't if we'll have the money or not, it's more about clear cut policy. Either we leave in which we will have to suffer the consequences which any sane person can predict, or we stay, in which we'll have to follow the rules of the union. The fiscal compliance rules in the EU prevent member states to go above a certain amount of deficit and debt - while outside the EU (which it seems both main parties want) we'd be allowed to hemorrhage cash and take up loans. I'm not sure if such a situation would be a great time to open the social welfare taps.

Social mobility and freedoms would possibly increase with a 30 hour free child-care policy like in Norway, Denmark etc, but I frankly don't see it feasible if we'll have to deal with the fallout of Brexit for the next 5-10 years. Last time I heard anything about these stats we're sitting at something like 120% of our GDP in debt while Denmark and other social-democratic states in Northern Europe are at around 40-50%. The starting point of this policy is already fairly awful for us, so social democratic reform from Labour needs to actually take our financial stand point into account before pretending that a policy like that would be possible to implement. 

I'm all for social welfare, though I'd rather not end up like some of the most recent failed socialistic states where there's no balance.

By all means I'd also love for us to stop spending cash on "#¤"#¤ like "the Festival of Brexit", Mogg's foreign portfolio, or ludicrous amounts of cash sent into our politicians accounts every year.