The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Jareth]

10 minutes ago, bickster said:

For example people were saying he'd gone back on his pledges when he ran for leader, when he hadn't

 

In Sept 2021 - 

Keir Starmer has said he is willing to tear up the promises he made during the Labour leadership election if it is needed to make the party electable.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-conference-pledges-b1928605.html

Now he's disappointing a whole other swathe of people who were hoping for the opposite from him on Europe. Just wait till he denounces PR. 

[Wainy316]

I'm almost wanting him to get that FPN now.

[bickster]

19 minutes ago, Jareth said:

In Sept 2021 - 

Keir Starmer has said he is willing to tear up the promises he made during the Labour leadership election if it is needed to make the party electable.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-conference-pledges-b1928605.html

Now he's disappointing a whole other swathe of people who were hoping for the opposite from him on Europe. Just wait till he denounces PR. 

So lets get this straight, what you've posted there is something saying "is willing" not "has done"

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Nicho said:

The problem being if he comes out right and says the truth about brexit, you have lost the vote of every person that still believe in brexit (and that is a lot) including members who wouldn’t usually vote against labour.

Unfortunately it’s the way it is. I do truly believe we will return to the EU, it will take multiple governments about 15 years to come to a clear consensus.

Yeah, it’s a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Basically making Labour a continuation of Tory with less (but no) scandals doesn’t really appeal to me personally. 

[bickster]

21 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Just wait till he denounces PR

I fully expect him to. That will put him at odds with his party because at conference this year, they will endorse it, now that a number of unions have backed it. The membership strongly supports it

I've only ever seen Labour getting behind PR as part of a Coalition with the LibDems and not as a policy Starmer will endorse. 

 

[Jareth]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

So lets get this straight, what you've posted there is something saying "is willing" not "has done"

Don't stop believing fella!

[Nicho]

5 hours ago, Genie said:

Yeah, it’s a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Basically making Labour a continuation of Tory with less (but no) scandals doesn’t really appeal to me personally. 

I dont know what your general political leanings are but this comment is a hook line and sinker of the "they are all the same" mantra.

There will always be scandal as the MPs are people and can and will make mistakes (do things on purpose aswelll) but this lot are off the scale, to suggest that others are the same just on less of a scale is wrong for me and a way of essentially keeping the tories in power through apathay.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Nicho said:

I dont know what your general political leanings are but this comment is a hook line and sinker of the "they are all the same" mantra.

There will always be scandal as the MPs are people and can and will make mistakes (do things on purpose aswelll) but this lot are off the scale, to suggest that others are the same just on less of a scale is wrong for me and a way of essentially keeping the tories in power through apathay.

I thought you were disagreeing, but then the words suggest you’re agreeing so i’m confused  

Labour will have scandals, we agree. It will be far less than what is currently going on, we agree.

Politically Labour have not really said much to differentiate themselves from The Conservatives at this stage. On the big hot topic of why our economy is crumbling they’ve basically said they’ll do nothing differently. I think we’re aligned on that too.

[Wainy316]

Lib Dem came (a distant) second in my constituency last time, so I guess I'll probably be voting for them anyway.  But I'd vote for the 'Super Duper Small Heath SOTV Zulu Warrior Forever Party', if they were best placed to beat the Tory candidate.

[Genie]

It’ll have to be Lib Dem for me I think.

As you suggested @Wainy316 I’m tempted to hope Starmer gets a penalty notice, steps down and someone with a set of balls takes over (not necessarily literally Angela).

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

not necessarily literally Angela

She'd get a notice too though and made the same promise

[Genie]

18 minutes ago, bickster said:

She'd get a notice too though and made the same promise

If only the Met were investigating, there would be notices for some but not all for no obvious reason at all.

[CVByrne]

4 hours ago, Genie said:

It’ll have to be Lib Dem for me I think.

As you suggested @Wainy316 I’m tempted to hope Starmer gets a penalty notice, steps down and someone with a set of balls takes over (not necessarily literally Angela).

I think Starmer is good. But I suppose anyone would look good when compared to Bojo and Corbyn. 

I will be happy having Starmer as PM on a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. As long as SNP have no sway I'll be happy. 

[MakemineVanilla]

I asked at my local library whether they had a copy of Labour's manifesto, and they told me to look in the periodicals section.

[jones1328]

10 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I asked at my local library whether they had a copy of Labour's manifesto, and they told me to look in the periodicals section.

[hippo]

Any leader will have his detractors over time.

Must admit I've warmed to him - whilst labour is only nominally ahead in the polls considering where they were when he took over I think he's done a decent job.

 

[juanpabloangel18]

10 minutes ago, hippo said:

Any leader will have his detractors over time.

Must admit I've warmed to him - whilst labour is only nominally ahead in the polls considering where they were when he took over I think he's done a decent job.

 

I think he's been crap. The whole point of him was to sacrifice left wing policy to sweep up the centrist vote, and as far as I can see he's completely failing to do that in the context of the worst British government of all time.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

whilst labour is only nominally ahead in the polls considering where they were when he took over I think he's done a decent job.

They aren't "only nominally" ahead. Currently averaging 40% - 33% ahead and have been for most of the year.

Taking a rough figure of 32 million voters at an election (roughly how many voted in 2019) that gives the following vote totals if translated into an election (This isn't a prediction btw)

Labour 12.8 million

Tory 10.6 million

LibDem 3.8 Million

Or put it another way Labour has 20% more voters than the Tories do.

It's a significant amount but the anomalies of FPTP favour the Tories

[cyrusr]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

They aren't "only nominally" ahead. Currently averaging 40% - 33% ahead and have been for most of the year.

Taking a rough figure of 32 million voters at an election (roughly how many voted in 2019) that gives the following vote totals if translated into an election (This isn't a prediction btw)

Labour 12.8 million

Tory 10.6 million

LibDem 3.8 Million

Or put it another way Labour has 20% more voters than the Tories do.

It's a significant amount but the anomalies of FPTP favour the Tories

Indeed.

Current Prediction (1 July 2022) from https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html is that Labour are 16 short of a majority. Based on this though a coalition/support from Lib Dems would cover it without the need to involve the SNP; just. 

Party	2019 Votes	2019 Seats	Pred Votes	Low Seats	Pred Seats	High Seats
CON	44.7%	365	33.3%	129	247	357
LAB	33.0%	203	38.7%	210	310	433
LIB	11.8%	11	11.8%	9	17	39
Reform	2.1%	0	1.2%	0	0	0
Green	2.8%	1	5.1%	1	1	1
SNP	4.0%	48	4.0%	30	51	55
PlaidC	0.5%	4	0.9%	3	5	7
Other	1.1%	0	5.0%	0	1	3
DUP		8			8
SF		7			7
SDLP		2			2
Alliance		1			1

[OutByEaster?]

Boris is the best thing to happen to the Labour party in years.

He's also made it very difficult to judge Starmer.