The ISIS threat to Europe

[Chindie]

Media rhetoric swinging away from Islamic terrorism, understandably, towards right wing terror.

Increasingly to me feels like this is like a US high school shooting. An individual with a grudge against society, perhaps unhinged in some way, takes it out on innocents in the worst way.

But still, we know very little. Could swing back easily. 

Edited July 22, 2016 by Chindie

[Chindie]

Cautious all clear. Killer shot himself.

[Chindie]

Killer was 18 year old Iranian from Munich.

[Keyblade]

Yeah it does sound very similar to US school shootings where a young guy just gets fed up with being bullied/'denied' sex etc. They usually off themselves too if the police don't get them first.

[HanoiVillan]

14 hours ago, Chindie said:

done a Columbine (and even then those 2 words removed weren't bullied) 

Could you expand on this point, because it's very much not what I've read. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Could you expand on this point, because it's very much not what I've read. 

Not to second guess Chindie's sources but a lot of the perspectives on Klebold and Harris 'not being bullied' stems from the work of David Cullen who wrote the book 'Columbine'. Cullen goes at lengths to refute so-called myths that the pair were subject to horrific bullying, but rather that Eric Harris was an utter psychopath with delusions of grandeur and a strong desire to create 'history' whereas Klebold was a manic depressive who was desperate to get laid - and somewhat under the influence of Eric Harris.

There appears to be some evidence of bullying but the psychopath narrative is pretty reasonable, there's plenty of evidence that can be found online that Eric Harris had strong white supremacist and neo-nazi leanings (in fact one of the library victims was murdered simply for being black - based on witness testimony). The fact that a lot of the targets appeared to be jocks (with the narrative that they targeted them since they were the ones dishing out the bullying) seems to be a bit of a misnomer given they both planned to blow up the entire school (as evidenced by the fact that they both left heavy bombs in the cafeteria that failed to detonate). 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss

[Chindie]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Could you expand on this point, because it's very much not what I've read. 

Off topic for this thread but briefly it's as Dr Pangloss notes above. Harris was likely a psychopath, who actually became bored with the slaughter shortly before putting the barrel in his mouth. He wasn't really bullied to any great degree and was just seen as the 'cool' outsider at school, who had a fairly large circle of friends and acquaintances, but who saw everyone as beneath him. Klebold was an obsessed depressive hanger on, Harris' lacky, who tagged onto Harris and was possibly in awe of him. Both bullied other students, Harris was absolutely obsessed with his 'grandeur', how those weaker than him deserved to have their possessions ripped from them and to be shot, who had a flair for charm and manipulation. Klebold was an depressive virgin who wanted to take his rage out on the world as he was otherwise impotent to do anything about it.

The entire thing was planned as a mass terror incident, they intended to blow up the cafeteria with propane bombs and gun down those running away (indiscriminately) but the bombs didn't detonate so they took to committing a mass shooting. It was a 'glamour' project in their heads, particularly Harris, everything was set up to look 'cool' and be a 'famous' mass shooting.

There are lots of myths about Columbine, but amongst the worst are that those 2 words removed were somehow wronged and this was the result. They were just pathetic, evil bastards.

[Chindie]

Anyway, Munich..

Off topic for this thread now as there's no Islamic connection. Described as a 'classic mass shooting', the killer had depression issues, burn and raised in Munich, allegedly changed his WhatsApp profile pic to one of Breivik and had researched mass shootings. Only had a pistol.

[limpid]

Next time there is a terrorist incident, please start a new thread. We can merge it as necessary when we find out more, but for now I'd rather see each incident in its own thread.

Thanks

[StefanAVFC]

According to Britain First, the Munich attack was a Muslim/ISIS attack. It's just being covered up by the Germany authorities and the media.

Right then.

[Dr_Pangloss]

7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

According to Britain First, the Munich attack was a Muslim/ISIS attack. It's just being covered up by the Germany authorities and the media.

Right then.

German authorities have hardly helped themselves by allegedly covering up crimes committed by migrant men in the past. 

[Xela]

16 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

German authorities have hardly helped themselves by allegedly covering up crimes committed by migrant men in the past. 

I think Germany now accepts it has dropped a bollock with its open door policy, as seen by the NYE scenes in Cologne and other cities.

I admire their compassion in helping but checks do need to be made on who you are letting in to your country. 

[Keyblade]

17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

According to Britain First, the Munich attack was a Muslim/ISIS attack. It's just being covered up by the Germany authorities and the media.

Right then.

It's not only them, a good number of right wing reporters who initially pounced on the incident and an erroneous report that the gunman yelled Allahu Akbar as an Islamic terrorism attack are now, instead of holding their hands and up and admitting they were wrong about it now that the facts are out are continuing to run with that narrative and instead are saying it's a cover-up or some weird conspiracy. Utterly shameless and shows their true agenda.

[Xela]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

It's not only them, a good number of right wing reporters who initially pounced on the incident and an erroneous report that the gunman yelled Allahu Akbar as an Islamic terrorism attack are now, instead of holding their hands and up and admitting they were wrong about it now that the facts are out are continuing to run with that narrative and instead are saying it's a cover-up or some weird conspiracy. Utterly shameless and shows their true agenda.

From the other angle, I found it noticeable that from the early reports that no official statement was prepared to acknowledge the ethnicity of the shooter and when it transpired he was German born of Iranian descent, there was a push to highlight the fact he was German born and therefore not an immigrant who had recently arrived in Germany. It was almost a relief for the authorities that it was a lone wolf shooter rather than an immigrant with IS sympathies. 

All IMO of course but that's how it felt from me. That's just as bad as the right wing media making up the Allah Akbar chants.

[MakemineVanilla]

30 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

German authorities have hardly helped themselves by allegedly covering up crimes committed by migrant men in the past. 

From what I understand, the German press have an agreement to change Islamic names to German ones when reporting certain crimes, in an attempt to avoid any adverse public overreaction.

I am told that the Sächsische Zeitung has decided to stop doing this.

The Sächsische Zeitung is based in Dresden, in the east, which is known to be more right wing than the west.

 

[Keyblade]

14 minutes ago, Xela said:

From the other angle, I found it noticeable that from the early reports that no official statement was prepared to acknowledge the ethnicity of the shooter and when it transpired he was German born of Iranian descent, there was a push to highlight the fact he was German born and therefore not an immigrant who had recently arrived in Germany. It was almost a relief for the authorities that it was a lone wolf shooter rather than an immigrant with IS sympathies. 

All IMO of course but that's how it felt from me. That's just as bad as the right wing media making up the Allah Akbar chants.

I don't see how that's just as bad considering those are all facts. He is a German born Iranian. And evidently it bears stressing especially since many people are belligerently refusing to budge from the narrative that he's an immigrant Islamic extremist.

[Chindie]

The odds of someone of Iranian descent being involved in ISIS are fairly low, given that Iran is quite notably a Shia country and ISIS view Shia Muslims as apostates at best.

[Keyblade]

Also a good portion of Iranians who've immigrated to the west that I've met at least are irreligious if not agnostic/atheist. 

[StefanAVFC]

Born in Germany, identified as German, was bullied by people who said he wasn't German.

One of my best friends is half Iranian/half British, born in Italy, yet identifies as 100% British. It's a dangerous road to go down when we start saying people aren't a certain nationality even though they were born there. 

I've seen analogies on right wing sites like, 'if a rat was born in a stable, it doesn't make it a horse'. It's just gross.

[penguin]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

It's not only them, a good number of right wing reporters who initially pounced on the incident and an erroneous report that the gunman yelled Allahu Akbar as an Islamic terrorism attack are now, instead of holding their hands and up and admitting they were wrong about it now that the facts are out are continuing to run with that narrative and instead are saying it's a cover-up or some weird conspiracy. Utterly shameless and shows their true agenda.

Where has this been debunked?