The ISIS threat to Europe

[chrisp65]

I guess our troops regularly sing a song to God asking him to protect the hereditary monarch from assassins whilst also scattering and felling her enemies and confounding their politics.

Others without our sophisticated education might think that's not particularly modern or secular.

 

 

[blandy]

12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I guess our troops regularly sing a song to God asking him to protect the hereditary monarch from assassins whilst also scattering and felling her enemies and confounding their politics.

Others without our sophisticated education might think that's not particularly modern or secular.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Look a Royal baby! Ahhhh, isn't it cute?...Kate Middleton's hair looks different, Her Majesty's 90 you know"

[villa4europe]

13 hours ago, maqroll said:

A guy with an axe got on a train in Germany and started hacking people with it, 20 injured, police shot and killed him, story breaking now

Afghan refugee, 17 years old, I think in a place called Wuerzburg, somewhere in bavaria

just about everything about that story is horrible

[Keyblade]

Not sure if this should go in the Euro thread or here, but I was reading about French police apprehending a nationalist guy who planned at least 15 attacks on the Euro's in France and was armed to the teeth with weapons and explosives not least 125 kg of TNT . That country has some serious issues, and they'll probably get worse if Le Pen comes into power as seems likely now.

[villa4europe]

theyve found an IS flag in that kids room following the attack in germany

[AshVilla]

17 hours ago, maqroll said:

A guy with an axe got on a train in Germany and started hacking people with it, 20 injured, police shot and killed him, story breaking now

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

theyve found an IS flag in that kids room following the attack in germany

I wonder what they'd have found in my bedroom when I was 17?

DNA mostly I guess.

[villa4europe]

yeah the blacklight would have been switched on and the place would have lit up like the northern lights...

[dont_do_it_doug.]

The thing is, these aren't ISIS 'planned' attacks are they, that much is clear. *Maybe* the Nice guy was brainwashed a couple of weeks prior to that incident, either way he was like your man with the axe - a nutter with his own motives hidden behind the thin veil of an ISIS flag. The Nice guy in particular weren't no muslim bruv. 

Maybe the west needs to crank up the propaganda machine and play on that fact a little more. Remove the fear. 

 

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Maybe the west needs to crank up the propaganda machine and play on that fact a little more. Remove the fear. 

There's no money in removing the fear -  the propaganda is cranking up the other angle.

 

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I wonder what they'd have found in my bedroom when I was 17?

DNA mostly I guess.

[Chindie]

There is no threat.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

On 15/07/2016 at 09:53, Keyblade said:

I despise this sentiment that's trotted out whenever something like this happens. It implies that 1.7 billion Muslims implicitly support these attacks and they have to speak out and let us know they don't. Nah ***** that. Of course this is also ignoring the various Islamic organizations that do condemn these attacks whenever they happen. But how do you want 1.7 billion apologies? Emailed to every white person, just so we're sure? Or are 1.7 billion tweets good enough?

OK,  thing longer term and the big picture.  We cannot bomb a solution and we cannot change it from the outside,  these I think are basics that we can all agree on ?

I don't think it's fair that Muslim people around the world are made to suffer discrimination becasue of the actions 0.01 % of their total.  As attacks in the West increase this will only get worse.

Long term the only possible way for some sort of peace to be achieved is if the whole muslim community rises against those who drag it through the mud every day.  Now as some Islamic organisations decree war on the West and this is acted on by a tiny minority and it causes death and destruction.  The actual message should be one voice that promotes the people and the religion as something good for the world.  All I am saying is that the religion itself has to change and the 1.7 Billion are the only ones capable of doing this.  Imagine if they all worked together as one to defeat their enemy within,  utilise the man power in the organisation.  This will ensure a good future for all and their religion also and might stop innocent people getting attacked for the actions of others.  I like your 1.7 billion tweet idea,  after every attack they will get drowned out by the people they propose to actually represent,  you despise this sort of thing though eh even though it is basically an idea i had to kill it dead permanently.  The right message to the right people can change behaviour,  look at Pokemon go as an example.

Despising things you either can't or won't understand becasue it is not in line with your ideas about a belief or subject is probably the sort of behaviour and thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.  Why you bring the colour of skin into things is also a worry but that's your thing.  I might be the villain of the thread and an easy target which is fine but I am thinking of solutions that is all.

 

[chrisp65]

Of these 1.7 billion muslims you'd like to see take some action, do you imagine they all have ready access to the news and use of a smartphone?

I think everyone in the 'west' needs to prove they are not selfish and should supply everyone in the east with a smart phone and a data package and decent reception for balanced news. Once we've all ensured that everyone in the east can read and write and have smartphones, then I want to see them tweeting their support for us.

Once that's done, we can work on getting them food and shelter and security and maybe even a future.

Meanwhile, I expect every single westerner to actively work towards making sure resources aren't stripped from poor countries. If everybody in the USA, Canada and Europe would only work together to make sure the water and the food and the money and the medicine were shared fairly, there would be less horror and death. Anybody that can't constantly prove they are working towards the solution is part of the problem. Anybody that chases pokemon whilst their are still orphans in Syria that can't get a hospital bed is part of the problem.

Or is life on this planet a bit more complicated than that? Before telling others how to act, consider your own actions and consequences.

 

[Keyblade]

16 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

OK,  thing longer term and the big picture.  We cannot bomb a solution and we cannot change it from the outside,  these I think are basics that we can all agree on ?

I don't think it's fair that Muslim people around the world are made to suffer discrimination becasue of the actions 0.01 % of their total.  As attacks in the West increase this will only get worse.

Long term the only possible way for some sort of peace to be achieved is if the whole muslim community rises against those who drag it through the mud every day.  Now as some Islamic organisations decree war on the West and this is acted on by a tiny minority and it causes death and destruction.  The actual message should be one voice that promotes the people and the religion as something good for the world.  All I am saying is that the religion itself has to change and the 1.7 Billion are the only ones capable of doing this.  Imagine if they all worked together as one to defeat their enemy within,  utilise the man power in the organisation.  This will ensure a good future for all and their religion also and might stop innocent people getting attacked for the actions of others.  I like your 1.7 billion tweet idea,  after every attack they will get drowned out by the people they propose to actually represent,  you despise this sort of thing though eh even though it is basically an idea i had to kill it dead permanently.  The right message to the right people can change behaviour,  look at Pokemon go as an example.

Despising things you either can't or won't understand becasue it is not in line with your ideas about a belief or subject is probably the sort of behaviour and thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.  Why you bring the colour of skin into things is also a worry but that's your thing.  I might be the villain of the thread and an easy target which is fine but I am thinking of solutions that is all.

 

How do Muslims deal with random lone individuals who radicalize suddenly and immediately carry out attacks? Or large organizations that even the world's toughest law enforcement agencies and governments are clearly struggling to deal with. Like seriously, what are tweets gonna do against ISIS? The majority of Muslims do condemn these attacks on social media where they have it. Most major Islamic organizations come out and condemn them and offer condolences it. Muslims went out and protested against ISIS and terrorism in London, which was predictably not covered by media. What more do you want them to do?

I despise that sentiment, not because I don't understand it...it's precisely because I do and I think I spelled out exactly why I do. It's because of the undertones that imply that Muslims are somehow complicit if not explicitly then in silent approval of these terrorists. If anyone hates them, it's Muslims themselves considering they are the main victims. They don't have to make a song and dance whenever an attack happens just to prove to people that "hey we're not like them, we promise!". It perpetuates the process of other-ization that is clearly developing and being pushed subconsciously or otherwise by people such as yourself who ask for condemnation.

Muslims are one of the only groups on earth who have to bear responsibility for 0.00001% (no seriously, this is a generous estimate of ISIS fighters and other Muslim extremists worldwide) of their population. Nobody ever asks white people to condemn Jo Cox's murderer or Anders Breivik who kill in the name of Britain or western civilization? What is the white community doing to weed out and fight against people like that potential Euro bomber? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? But Muslims and other minorities like African Americans always have to apologize for their bad apples. I'm sorry, I'm not cool with that and will not stand for it.

[chrisp65]

It is just a nonsense viewpoint that all muslims have anything to do with it.

There are families lives being wrecked all over South America and Afghanistan for drugs gangs to get the produce so wealthy westerners can have a bit of a buzz on a Friday night. The people of Bolivia and Mexico and Afghanistan should be demanding their futures are improved by demanding that Hollywood stop glamourising cocaine and kids in the UK need to prove that they are fighting drugs and grassing up dealers.

If you aren't telling the police what nightclubs condone drugs, if you aren't outing mates that have taken something, if you aren't tweeting your condemnation of Breaking Bad then you are part of the problem of drugs wrecking lives right across this planet.

It's just as valid an argument as deciding you want to see all muslims doing something about one nutter in Nice.

[blandy]

40 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Muslims are one of the only groups on earth who have to bear responsibility for 0.00001%...of their population. Nobody ever asks white people to condemn Jo Cox's murderer or Anders Breivik who kill in the name of Britain or western civilization? What is the white community doing to weed out and fight against people like that potential Euro bomber? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

That's correct. It also (rather generously) overlooks the pretty offensive implication behind "demanding an apology"

It's like here's a random person living their life in a random place and going up to them and saying "I demand you condemn an action by another person, who you've never met in another place that you've never been to, and if you don't it proves that you're the sympathiser or worse of vile murder"

Because that's the implication -  "apologise or you're one of the murderous scum"

You, we, everyone, shouldn't need and don't need to ask anyone to apologise for the actions of another. It goes without saying that 99.9999% of people are decent people, because it's the truth.

"Random decent person, say sorry, NOW!"

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

What the world could do with now is a few serious heads to tackle the problem.

 

[chrisp65]

11 minutes ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

What the world could do with now is a few serious heads to tackle the problem.

I'd usually post a picture of Boris now, but I'm afraid a klaxon will go off, QI stylee.

[ml1dch]

On 19/07/2016 at 10:19, blandy said:

Has there ever been a conflict where the leaders/chaplains/Imams/whoevers have said "sorry, we're going to have to go it alone on this one, as God's decided to sit on his hands this time?

"Troops, on the eve of battle, I have prayed to almighty God and beseeched him to grant us his favour in our hour of greatest need.

Unfortunately, it turns out that he's backing the Prussians in this one"