Chindie Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, trekka said: Aye. I'd happen to agree with wiki though: I more or less used a version of that definition in my dissertation. I more explicitly implied states can do it however, given that was basically the point of the whole essay. Lone wolves tend to be argued against as dilutes the term too far towards other crimes, and there is a desire in some quarters to quite explicitly define terrorism in a very specific direction for a variety of reasons (both cynical and practical in nature). From my perspective, anyone can commit an act with an intention of causing fear to bring about a political aim, be they alone or organised in a group, or in government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 Lone gunman it seems (hopefully) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, trekka said: Lone gunman it seems (hopefully) Lone 3 gunmen surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Orlando was initially reported as multiple gunmen and so was one of the recent police shootings (not Dallas), so I'd say it's simply highly uncertain right now. Crazy, crazy times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, trekka said: Lone gunman it seems (hopefully) They seem to be investigating that one of the killers may have killed himself in the centre. But then the video on the roof appears to show the guy from outside McDonalds apparently after the shootings. This whole thing is bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Yeah reports are all over the place at the moment first guy on video opening fire by McDonald's looked western to me the other alleged gunman I saw a picture of looked more North African ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 CNN going hard on 3 gunmen's and that one of them shouted 'Allahu Akbar'. Always thought CNN were shit. Points more to one alone idiot with whatever agenda he now has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Yeah reports are all over the place at the moment first guy on video opening fire by McDonald's looked western to me the other alleged gunman I saw a picture of looked more North African ? The rooftop video bloke was called an insult used for Middle Eastern people, and he appears to be the same guy as the McDonalds one. That was when he replied he was German - hence the theory he's German of Middle Eastern/Turkish origin. It's all so odd. If it's more than 1 killer, it seems one shot himself in the mall perhaps, and one outside McDonalds manages to get to the rooftop carpark. His reasoning there all seems to be the kind of rhetoric you'd hear from a high school killer, but unless they've done a Columbine (and even then those 2 words removed weren't bullied) it seems odd there'd be more than one. He seems to suggest he had mental treatment, so it's possible perhaps that depression or the like has been severe enough for him to turn to radical Islam if he is of Islamic descent, and thats been the final excuse to go crazy? But that doesn't quite seem right. Until they catch or find out what the motive was, this is a mess. That's left 9 senselessly dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Rooftop man and McDonald's man are one and the same it apoears he also (allegedly )shouted racial abuse towards Turks so sounding more like lone gunman and not a terrorist attack ? Edited July 22, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Sky News (yes, I know) have apparently analysed footage of the gunman on the roof of the car park (new footage it seems) and have deduced that it is the same nutter outside of Mcdonalds. Looking likely like it's one deranged lone wolf (even if I am agreeing with Sky News). EDIT: As Chindie said. EDIT again: As Tony said too. Edited July 22, 2016 by trekka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Rooftop man and McDonald's man are one and the same it apoears he also (allegedly )shouted racial abuse towards Turks so sounding more like lone gunman and not a terrorist attack ? Apparently the racial abuse was towards him, contrary to the original reports. But as said on the rooftop he doesn't say anything about that apart from that he's German. He seems to suggest that the kind of abuse he had was what lead him to get a gun (but then he says he's done nothing wrong apparently?) and talks about his background allegedly, coming from a poor area, having had treatment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: so sounding more like lone gunman and not a terrorist attack ? Palestinians for example are adept at carrying out attacks with a single operative, be that by suicide belt, attack with a vehicle or simply knifing people. Would be hard to argue they aren't acts of terrorism because they were committed by a single actor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Palestinians for example are adept at carrying out attacks with a single operative, be that by suicide belt, attack with a vehicle or simply knifing people. Would be hard to argue they aren't acts of terrorism because they were committed by a single actor. As are a multitude of groups, racially or otherwise identified... group think has us (all, not just you!) automatically assigning color/creed to these events now. Not a good thing. Edited July 22, 2016 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just now, villakram said: As are a multitude of groups, racially or otherwise identified... group think has us (all, not just you!) automatically assigning color/creed to these events now. Not a good thing. Think you misunderstand, I was questioning Tony's suggestion that action by a lone individual doesn't constitute a terrorist attack. The Palestinians popped into my head as a particular example to dispute that. Nothing to do with race/religion/creed, beside which the geezer in Munich appears to be an Aryan... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just now, Awol said: Think you misunderstand, I was questioning Tony's suggestion that action by a lone individual doesn't constitute a terrorist attack. The Palestinians popped into my head as a particular example to dispute that. Nothing to do with race/religion/creed, beside which the geezer in Munich appears to be an Aryan... Wasn't intended to specifically have a go at you. Your comment put the more general idea of what these events are doing to us into my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) All nightclubs in Munich to be closed tonight... cue packed maternity wards in 9 months Edited July 22, 2016 by villakram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Think you misunderstand, I was questioning Tony's suggestion that action by a lone individual doesn't constitute a terrorist attack. The Palestinians popped into my head as a particular example to dispute that. Nothing to do with race/religion/creed, beside which the geezer in Munich appears to be an Aryan... I was thinking of it more along the lines of him not shouting God is great as he butchered people , hence its not a terrorist attack in the definition that Trump has already alluded to , rather than the actual number of perps involved but yes he can still be a terrorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted July 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) 9th person dead is the (a?) gunman outside of Mcdonalds. I *think* this is over thankfully. I also want to reiterate my point earlier that terrorism doesn't have to come in groups (as Awol posted too). An individual sucked into an ideology or sick fantasy can also terrorise people, and to be honest, I'm annoyed that some news outlets carry news stories like this as not terrorism. Edited July 22, 2016 by trekka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 18 minutes ago, trekka said: 9th person dead is the (a?) gunman outside of Mcdonalds. I *think* this is over thankfully. I also want to reiterate my point earlier that terrorism doesn't have to come in groups (as Awol posted too). An individual sucked into an ideology or sick fantasy can also terrorise people, and to be honest, I'm annoyed that some news outlets carry news stories like this as not terrorism. Is every U.S school shooting terrorism ? Tbh I'm more annoyed that the media automatically report everything as terrorism and go off to world leaders for a quote ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 22, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2016 The UN attempted to define terrorism in order to adjust it's laws so that it could arrest terrorists. It became difficult on the definition of a resistance fighter - the UN was unable to pass a resolution that the US would vote for that didn't allow the prosecution of its two allies at time, South Africa and Israel - so we don't have an international definition of terrorism. Instead, it's whatever the people who are opposed to it want it to be. Munich must be terrifying right now - it's the randomness of recent attacks that makes them most frightening - that and the fact that they're here to stay - they're almost a natural by product of the way in which we're structured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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